Kero subsitute?

[WilliamInOz]

Hi,
what do people run in the kero fueled engines since kero is dearer than poison these days can you make a kero subsitute up?

Cheers, Will

[jelbart]

our club recently got a price on A1 jet fuel guys around here have been running it in oil engines for about 20 years its around $560 for a 44 gallon drum i find that kero engine run much better on A1 jet

[Patrick M Livingstone]

I run lighting kero in my Austral. It uses very little over a weekend so cost has not come into it (yet). My petrol/kero engines I run on petrol only. Only one of them ever gets hot enough to actually burn the kero fully but it is happy on petrol.

[K D Redd]

Low Sulfur number one diesel is almost the same as kerosene now. Have you tried it?

Kent

[Elden DuRand]

Kent:

You're right. #1 Diesel (or fuel oil) is the same as kerosene. #2 Diesel is also called #2 fuel oil.

I'm experimenting on fuels for my home-made Hvid engine and have just about settled on a mixture of 50% #2 fuel oil and 50% corn oil.

If I use kerosene (#1 fuel oil or "parrafin") in the mix, the engine knocks something fierce at light loads and I have to lower the compression ratio......then, it gets touchy to start. Also, with the kerosene, it doesn't make the power it does with the alternative.

If your engine doesn't have an extremely high compression ratio and is not truly compression ignition, you might consider experimenting with #2 fuel oil mixed with a small amount of naphtha to aid ignition.

Take care - Elden
http://www.oldengine.org/members/durand

[WilliamInOz]

what about the stuff they use for road making to keep the bitumen. Its flash point is around 260 degrees and is sold under kero but is kero also a mild cutting compound?

Cheers, Will

[E27N]

mmmmm i don't think jet A1 is to far removed from power kero

[Merv C]

G/day all.
I have recently bought a 200 ltr (44gall) drum of lighting kerosene for $411 NZD including GST. Lighting kero is almost the same as jet A1, I run my Blackstone on Lighting kerosene, I also run my Tangye V type on it as well. I have used A1 in the past with no difference. Right now I am trying to run my vertical hot bulb Blackstone on kero, it doesn't go on it at all. Years ago I used to run it on "power kerosene" which was a mix of 9 parts turps 1 part diesel and a dash of oil It ran well on that, and back then it wouldn't run on lighting kerosene either. I will have to make some more and run it on that again.
A friend runs his Blackstone on straight diesel, apart from a lot of smoke after starting it runs sweet.
At $2 a litre I think the cost is not too bad.
I know some run there oil engines on home heating oil with success but I have never tried it.
Merv.

[Elden DuRand]

"I know some run there oil engines on home heating oil with success but I have never tried it."

Merv:

"Home heating oil" here in the States is the same as #2 fuel oil or #2 Diesel fuel. The only difference is that any #2 oil that is to be used in a road vehicle has to have road tax paid on it and a red dye mixed into it.

Take care - Elden

[Russell Gilbert]

Hey Will, I also recently bought a 44 of straight BLUE Kero. It was about $450 which sounds quite a lot. Will a 44 is a sh#t load of gogo juice and it will last quite a long time. The campbell would probably use 1 ltr for two hours running! Do that 10 times a year and I haven't used much. Don't stres over it to much. Just don't go to bunnings and buy a 5lt container. Then you are gonna pay through the nose for it. Can also use it for cleaning parts etc. If you say 450 real fast then it even sounds cheaper still!
Russell

[WilliamInOz]

Yep 450 sounds really cheap real quick! Tractors would use it up more too ay? depending on how there tuned in stuff but yeah! Id rather see stuff running once in a while!

Cheers, Will

[sumpoiler]

i got some jet a1 of a mate to try in my engines.
i ran my roseberry 3hp engine @ the national rally all weekend on jet a1
ran just as good as the blue kero did.

Originally Posted by jelbart

our club recently got a price on A1 jet fuel guys around here have been running it in oil engines for about 20 years its around $560 for a 44 gallon drum i find that kero engine run much better on A1 jet

[Ray Freeman]

Make friends with someone at your local airfield.Lots of A1 is discarded from bottoms of helicopter tanks and sometimes they have out of date A1.I have a 44 full of it here and my neighbor runs his truck on a 50/50 brew of it and pump diesel.
My Ronny diesel tends to oil up on diesel with no load. I run it on a 50/50 mix and it runs sweet with no oiling and smells a lot nicer too.

[Inter Bloke]

Ray is right, the little vintage club I am involved with get a few drums now and then from test samples that are removed from jet tanks. After it is taken out for testing it is forbibben to put it back so its storred and we have been lucky enough to get some.
About a year ago I got shot down in flames on the TOMM forum for telling someone not to use "power Kero" (which is what I was told Jet A was) in his hot bulb oil engine so I rang up the technical department of our fuel supply company and talked to one of their chemists to find out the truth. What he told me was that Jet A and the old power kero are very simmilar although not quite the same, and that Jet A and normal houshold kero is also much the same and that the main differences betreen the two relate to the purity of the Jet A and its ability to not deposit carbon during combustion on the turbine blades of jet engines. He reconed anything that would run on Jet A or the old Power Kero would run equaly well on houshold kero as long as it got hot enough to vapourise it.
"I dunnoh", I havn't tried to varifie this information "yet" because I still have a small supply of genuine power kero, but when the oportunity arises I intend to put some straight household kero in my model U Allis Chalmers and see what happens.

[John Kilpatrick]

Been using jet fuel for years(at least 30+) in anything that will run on it, no problems at all so far. Goes well in late model diesel tractors and cars also,especially kubotas and toyotas.
My John Deere tractors and Petter Handyman run well on it and Lister and Southern Cross diesels are ok with it to.
Cheers John.

[Russell Gilbert]

I have had plenty of folk tell me that jetA1 was bad to use in my engines. I still cant tell why either. I'm now using blue kero but only as it was cheaper for my to purchase at the time. I have found that both run my engines without any hickups! (over a 6 to 7 year period)

Another point of discussion is that I have been told that JetA1 is Carsnejenic (typo??) where normal kero is not?? Was not an issue for running the engines on but I was told it was not good for me to be soaking my hands in it to clean dirty old parts?
Russell

[John Kilpatrick]

Hi Russ, I work with avtur every day in my workplace and could be a dead man walking but if you google "avtur or jp8 safety data sheet" and have a read it might scare you at first but if you look at any other fuel it's fairly benign. I don't know how to post an attachment yet.
Cheers John.

[draper110]

As far as i understand lighting kero is a solvent and therfor abrasive, whereas power kero is a light oil (like diesel) and is a lube.

[jopeter]

As has been said make friends with a helicopter operator .Thats where i get my Jet A .It is out of date and discarded test samples.

[Ian Mattner]

Here is a recipe for power kerosene which is equivalent to jet fuel. two parts lighting kerosene to one part petrol with a suitable upper cylinder lube, as petrol doesn't contain lead any more, to lubricate the valves.I have used the above in a David Brown Cropmaster tractor with no side effects.Much more economical than straight petrol and more power