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Engine identity?


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  #1  
Old 08-19-2009, 05:56 AM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Question Engine identity?

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ID:	61183 Can anyone please identify this 3.5 HP engine which has been re-badged "Waugh & Josephson" It is throttle governed. Carby and maggie are both missing. I think it maybe a "Fuller and Johnson" model "ND" but can't be sure!! I have included a photo as an attachment as I haven't been able to figure out how to post a picture yet.....regards to all.. Phil (Steeleye)
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:20 AM
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Patrick M Livingstone Patrick M Livingstone is online now
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Photo Re: Engine identity?????

It looks to be a Rosebery Engine Works (Dunning Ave, Waterloo, Sydney) built engine. They are a copy of the Fuller & Johnson K.
This is my 5.5hp badged as a Buzacott:

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Old 08-19-2009, 07:18 AM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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[QUOTE=Patrick M Livingstone;437512]It looks to be a Rosebery Engine Works (Dunning Ave, Waterloo, Sydney) built engine. They are a copy of the Fuller & Johnson K.
This is my 5.5hp badged as a Buzacott:

Jumpin Johosephant!!!!! Thats it! Virtually identical except a little larger than mine. Thanks Patrick.......Phil


Keepum burnin an turnin
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:26 AM
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Photo Re: Engine identity?????

This is my 4hp which is similar to your engine except it has a one piece cylinder & base. Your engine would be earlier than this one which is 1929.
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:05 AM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?????

Hi Patrick. Thanks for that. Is there a Rosebery register? How can I date the engine??Just need a maggie and carby now. Any ideas what sort of maggie do I start looking for? Haven't got a spare that you dont want???
My next problem is trying to figure out how to get the fly wheels off. As everything is rusted up, things are difficult with only limited tooling. I have never tackeld an engine of this type or magnitude before. Only smaller things. eg. Villiers, Jap etc.etc..I managed to get the bearing caps off and they both look as if they have had hardly any use....Cheers Phil (steeleye) keepum burnin an turnin
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Engine identity?????

The magneto you are looking for is a ML (as pictured on my 5.5hp). They seem to pop up on eBay every now and then. The carby will be a lot harder to find but I have seen the odd one at swap meets.
If you don't need to take the flywheels off the crank, don't. You are heading for a whole world of un-needed pain. You are better off to lift out the crank and flywheels as one peice. The only reason to remove the flywheels is if the crank-gear is damaged or if the keys or the crank itself are damaged. The only engine I needed to get the flywheels off (to repair the govenor ring) was on my 2B Buzacott. Even with a lot of care and some expert help we still cracked a flywheel. Thankfully 2hp Buzacott flywheels are all the same and easy to source. If I can help with any specific pictures of parts or how to get certain bits off I will hopefully have some of the answers for you. Even though I have much rarer and valuable engines I still have a soft spot for my Buzacotts as they are well built and run very well (although they tend to suck fuel).
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Old 08-20-2009, 05:45 AM
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Photo Re: Engine identity?????

It is a bit hard to see in this pic but in it I have (on their only rally together); my 1926 5.5hp; 1929 4K 4hp; & my 1934 2B 2hp 'Little Kangaroo' shearing plant.

Below are the 5.5hp & 4hp

and the 2B
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:43 PM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?????

Thanks again Patrick. The search is on! From your photos I can see that there are a few more parts that are missing such as the gear guards and crank guard,but hese wont stop it from running. On mine the fly weight shaft is seized and the exhaust valve actuating shaft is siezed in the guide attached to the head. So these have to come off to be worked on. The only problem is these cant come off without the flywheel off. Hereby lies the problem.....No doubt it will all sort out in the wash.......Cheers Phil (Steeleye)
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:58 PM
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Photo Re: Engine identity?????

The gear guards are nearly always missing and the crank guard is often missing. I was lucky that the 5.5hp is 100% complete (it is basically a brand new engine) and the 4hp was only missing the crank guard.
The easiest way to gain access to the rear part of the pushrod and the govenor is to lift the crank and flywheels clear. They are heavy so watch your back.
For more detail of the 4hp have a look at:
Buzacott 4K
and of the 5.5hp at:
Buzacott 5.5hp
For interest here is an original ad:

Note that the engine pictured is actually a Fuller & Johnson with the logo on the hopper crudely altered!
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Old 08-21-2009, 01:17 AM
cobbadog cobbadog is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?

Hi Patrick,
Who came first Roseberry or Buzacott? When I was talking To someone dating my Buzacott J pumper engine he hinted at the idea that Buzucott were financially helping Roseberry to set up business. Would this be right. I know for certian being new to all these stationary engines and wanting to learn more all the time I can only be guided by what people tell me. Looking forward to your reply.
Cheers, John
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Old 08-21-2009, 02:45 AM
Eric Schulz Eric Schulz is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?

"Who came first Roseberry or Buzacott?"
Buzacott & Co Ltd, built a small number of engines pre-1920 (I don't know how pre) then decided to get serious, so set up the Rosebery (only one r) Engine Works in the 1921 to 1924 era. What I base these dates on is that Buzacotts registered the Rosebery trade mark in 1921 and transferred it to the Rosebery Engine Works in 1924. Not sure when production started.
So, Rosebery and Buzacott engines were from the same factory, same owners.
In 1935 the firm became Westinghouse Sales & Rosebery Ltd, and in 1949 Westinghouse Rosebery P/L - if my information is correct.

Eric
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Old 08-21-2009, 04:58 AM
Rusty Engines Rusty Engines is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?

Hi All
Another Buzacott Add dated 1914
Ian
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Old 08-21-2009, 06:31 AM
Michaely Michaely is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick M Livingstone View Post
The magneto you are looking for is a ML (as pictured on my 5.5hp). They seem to pop up on eBay every now and then. The carby will be a lot harder to find but I have seen the odd one at swap meets.
If you don't need to take the flywheels off the crank, don't. You are heading for a whole world of un-needed pain. You are better off to lift out the crank and flywheels as one peice. The only reason to remove the flywheels is if the crank-gear is damaged or if the keys or the crank itself are damaged. The only engine I needed to get the flywheels off (to repair the govenor ring) was on my 2B Buzacott. Even with a lot of care and some expert help we still cracked a flywheel. Thankfully 2hp Buzacott flywheels are all the same and easy to source. If I can help with any specific pictures of parts or how to get certain bits off I will hopefully have some of the answers for you. Even though I have much rarer and valuable engines I still have a soft spot for my Buzacotts as they are well built and run very well (although they tend to suck fuel).
Hi Patrick and steeleye,

of course the other reason for removing flywheels is if the crank is as rough as guts and needs a grind. I'm presently doin up an early olds and the crank journals were enough to make u cry and laugh all at once. The b#$%^&#@ took me 2 years and lots of agro to get off. I agree with Patrick if u don need to get em off, then leave em alone. They will be happy and so will you.

see ya,


Mike
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Old 08-22-2009, 05:02 AM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?????

Gday again Patrick,
The crank and flywheels got lifted out today with help from a friend,so the offending
governer bits came off quite easly after that and are now soaking in mallasses to clean them up a bit. Now the head doesn't want to come off. I even gave it a good talking to but that didn't work either. Got quite a surprise this arvo on the phone when Don Reid told me about my engine. On 24/08/26 it developed 3.7Hp when test run at Buzzacott's Rosebery Engine Works. He even gave me the serial number of the ML maggie that was fitted to it. So she will be having her 83rd birthday on Monday. Maybe I'll do cake!!!.........Phil
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Old 08-22-2009, 11:36 PM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Question Re: Engine identity?

Hello again Patrick.
Another question. How was the ML maggie driven? By the photo of yours it seems to be gear driven from off the main crank gear! Is that correct?..........Phil (Steeleye)
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:57 PM
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Patrick M Livingstone Patrick M Livingstone is online now
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Photo Re: Engine identity?

Yes it is driven off the crank gear. On my 5.5hp there is an idler gear between the crank gear and the magneto.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:04 PM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?

Thanks Patrick. Got the head off yesterday with a lot of persuasion and the bore above the piston isn't too bad. Also i may have tracked down an ML maggie. Should know in a few days...................thanks again Phil
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:01 AM
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Photo Re: Engine identity?

Another nice Buzacott ad:
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Engine identity?

Phil

I restored a 3HP N type Fuller & Johnson some years ago which is a very similar engine to your Buzacott (Buzacott copied Fuller & Johnson?? - I am sure Patrick knows the background). I got a cast reproduction timing gear cover from Nick Lozzi in the US via the smokstak website. Nick has a great Fuller & Johnson website which is well worth a look, he may have more guards in stock??
Luke
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:17 AM
steeleye steeleye is offline
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Default Re: Engine identity?

For a while I thought mine may have been a rebadged "ND" as it seemed to be the only FJ that was 3 1/2 HP. Now I know different........Phil
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