Help with 1901 5 HP Flyball Blackstone oil engine

[Mike O]

I posted this in the standard engine and forgot all about the down under section. I am looking for starting and running instructions for my newest toy. Here is a link to the original post, Any thoughts? Thanks Mike
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...d=1#post438372

[Patrick M Livingstone]

I have never had the joy of playing with a flyball Blackstone so I am not sure how similar they are to the more often seen 'Carter' governed Blackstone. I think the fuel, governing, & ignition is quite different between the two styles of Blackstone. I will ask a couple of the Blackstone experts here and see what they know.

[Mike O]

Thanks Patrick! I do have the pressure vessel for the hot tube and the pot muffler, I just am unsure of the sequence and also I assume that starting it from the sideshaft side the crank goes clockwise? Mike

PS I even have the original hand crank and man that is a true man killer!

[Patrick M Livingstone]

You are quite right, the crank should go clockwise looking at the engine from the sideshaft side. Your engine appears to have an exhuast valve lockout or half compression lever below the sideshaft. This may make starting the engine a little easier although it may be possible to 'bounce' start the engine like you can with the hot-bulb Blackstones (and Australs).
I presume that the temperature and heating position of the hot-tube will affect the engine timing.

[Wayne Timms]

Hi Mike O,

These engines are fairly thin on the ground both in Engalnd and Australia. I have seen a couple run and they seem to suffer from pre-ignition and knock severely.

One owner overcame this by putting spaces between the barrell and the block to lower compression, I can't recall how he overcame all the side-shaft length, cams, bearings, etc.

Another engine, would run fine on some days and then other days would knock so badly it would have to be stopped.

The continuous lamp must play a big part. I have never started one myself.

Regards,

Wayne

www.bluefuel-whitesmoke.com

[Mike O]

OK, How about this. It is an "oil" engine. Does that mean Diesel or Keorseen or Just what kind of oil do I use? Thanks again Mike

[Patrick M Livingstone]

The 'Oil' in Oil Engine refers to Kerosene.

[john gilbert]

Hi Mike O and others that have already responded to this question, I have picked up a few of Russell's old books to have a look at and last night I was reading a very interesting article on, of all things, Blackstone Hot Bulb Engines of 1903-4, very interesting reading. Now I am not a technical Engine man, just a tank maker for you guy's and love to help Russell with all his mechanical problems etc, The article I was reading is in the June 2000 issue no- 315 of the English "Stationary Engine" magazine, Part one of a two part feature ( I have yet to find part two) written by Nigel McBurney. I suggest you obtain a copy etc, if unavailable I am Sure we will be able to get you a copy somehow without infringine any copywrite. Hope this is opf some help to you. ( Patrick, how did you miss that ?) cheers John

[Wayne Timms]

Hi John,

I am not familiar with the article, is it refering to the continuous lamp model or the later hotbulb design?

Strange you should mention Nigel McBurney, he is the chap I was refering to who put the spacers on his engine between the barrel and block.

Cheers,

Wayne

www.bluefuel-whitesmoke.com

[john gilbert]

Hi Wayne, you may be right there, that article might be for non contiunous lamp heat, I am not sure as it does not appear to say, yea or nay in that regard. I will see if I can get a copy to you on email.
cheers mate. John

[Patrick M Livingstone]

For some good Blackstone Info try the Blackstone Web Site at:
Blackstone Site

[Mike O]

Thanks again all, Patrick I have been to th eBlackstone site and I exchanged email's with Michael on this engine. As a matter of fact when I first saw this engine ayear and a half ago I had contacted him to inquire about it. Let me take a couple of lines here and tell you all the short story about this engine.

It was sold and installed into a small family business in 1901, that family had some kind of dispute some place between 1903 and 1905 and closed the doors and walked away from it not to return until 1965 when the doors were reopened and the entire contents sold at auction. The man that bought this engine never ran it or showed it. Then in 1985 he ran into some financial issues and sold it to my friend in England and ahain he never ran or showed the engine. Then a year ago July I was visiting England on vacation and just fell in love with it. I struck a deal and it was mine. It took about all this time to get it here and I just got it 2 weeks ago. so this engine has no more then 5 years of total run time, It has never been out doors. It also has all the little bits like the tool box full of Blackstone tools, the correct pot muffler, the original pressur vessel for the lamp. I even have the hand crank (I have never seen one this big) As you can tell I am quite excited about owning it because you cannot ask for one in better condition and I also do realize the rarity of it also.

So again thanks for all your thoughts and tips. Cheers Mike

[Patrick M Livingstone]

What colour is your engine? I was taking another look at my mates 1905 engine and now that some of the oil and muck has been washed off it the colour is actually blue and not the black we thought it was. He also has a 1906 engine that has been restored and painted blue which we did not think was correct but maybe it is. This is the 1906 6.5hp atmospheric air valve engine.

This is the 1905 10hp engine:

[Mike O]

Well Patrick even know my engine has not run in 100 + years there still is a fair amount of grease and grime on it. BUT they cylinder has a blue gray shade to it and the base and flywheel seems to be darker like black. Not sure if it is just the grease or what but there is for sure some shade of blue on the cylinder! and the lettering on the base is highlighted in a gold color. Mike

[Wayne Timms]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info very much appreciated.

Regards,
Wayne

www.bluefuel-whitesmoke.com

[john gilbert]

Hi Wayne, was that the right info or not ?? I have been off line for a few days at the Wentworth Show, Took Russell's 6hp Hornsby 1914 vintage, came home with a Ribbon as well.
cheers mate John

[Merv C]

G,day Mike,
I hope you are still checking this thread.
I had a talk to a friend yesterday who has a continuous lamp hot tube Blackstone. He tells me that starting is the same as the later hot bulb Blackstones.
This is how I start mine:-
Heat the hot bulb/tube

While heating check all oiling points.
Set the engine on decompression, and apply the choke.
Rock flywheel back and forth from time to time until white vapour blows back through the carby at this point it should be ready to start,
pull the fly wheel backwards to compression then pull through the cycle
it should fire and keep going, revert back to full compression and open the choke.
My engine doesn't normally start by bouncing like a Hornsby will.
I would think that if the hot tube is it too hot it will fire too early and it will not go over the top, that happens with my hot bulb too.
My Blackstone starts very easily, and I am told the hot tube is the same. I run lighting kerosene in mine But a friend who runs a hot tube Campbell tells me that kerosene causes intense knocking so he is having to experiment with diesel mixes to overcome this
As you probably know the hot bulb engines don't need the lamp to keep going but hot tube engines do.
Have a talk to the oilfield engine boys they know about hot tube engines I know Reid's and Bessemer's are although they run on gas.

Good luck.
Merv.

[Mike O]

Thanks everyone all great information. However I do not think I have a choke on my engine. If so could you please let me know where it is? Thanks again

[Patrick M Livingstone]

I cannot see a choke on your engine. This atmospheric air valve 1906 engine has a similar air intake to your engine. You can see the choke where the air pipe attached to the valve assembly. I am pretty this choke is a later addition.

[Wayne Timms]

Originally Posted by john gilbert

Hi Wayne, was that the right info or not ?? I have been off line for a few days at the Wentworth Show, Took Russell's 6hp Hornsby 1914 vintage, came home with a Ribbon as well.
cheers mate John

Hi John,
The info refers mainly to the later engines. I hope you brought the engine back home with the ribbon . Otherwise Russell won't be too happy.
Regards,
Wayne

www.bluefuel-whitesmoke.com