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Vintage Diesel Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel Engines

UD-14 I think help


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  #1  
Old 08-31-2009, 10:20 PM
Mercury Mercury is offline
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Default UD-14 I think help

Hi all... im new at the whole forum thing and at these gas start then run on diesel engines in general...

let me summarize...

We have an old allis chamlers road grader, circa early 40's or late 30's

I beleive the serial number is M4248, it starts on gas then is switched to diesel once warmed up.

We are lately having trouble getting it started on gas.

Is there any way to start these on diesel? To eliminate the need to start on gas?

Thanks for the help!

Kenny
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:18 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: UD-14 I think help

Starting on gas serves 2 purposes - 1)Lower cranknig pressure to overcome on the starter. The starter may not be able to turn the engine at the velocity needed to start the engine with full diesel compression. 2)starinig on gas pre-warms cylinders, making the conversion to compression ignition easier (better volitization of diesel fuel, no cold spots in cylinders, warmed parts-less wear and tear on internal engine componants(.

What is causing the hard start on gas? Bad fuel? Poor carburetion? Worn/mis set points - distributer? bad condenser? If magneto fired, poor mag performance?

Repairing the gas start problems surely will be a lot less expensive than making the conversions nescessary to make the engine start on diesel compression ignition alone!
Andrew
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Old 09-01-2009, 01:27 AM
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Talking Re: UD-14 I think help

I suspect that the engine your dealing with is not an "allis chamlers" at all, but one of the hybrid International Harvester engines. I have a 4 banger in an Austin/Western MotorGrader, here, that we still use to grade our "Road that airplanes land on". One side of the engine is Gasoline, and has a Carb, Distributer, and Spark Plugs, and the other side is Diesel with Injection Pump and Injectors. There is a lever that switches the engine over from Gas to Diesel, by closing a valve set in the heads to raise the Compression Ratio, and moving the Diesel Injection Pump Rack off Cutoff, once the engine has warmed up, running on gas. We rebuilt ours 25 years ago, and it has purred like a kitty, ever since. Starts very easy, clear down to -15F, and is just as strong (the engine, not the grader) today, as it was after we rebuilt it.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:00 AM
Mercury Mercury is offline
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Default Re: UD-14 I think help

I am sorry guys, it is an austin-westen motor grader from late 30's early 40's

I beleive it is a 99M model and has the UD-14 engine.

To the poster above, where did you get your parts to rebuild the engine, what all was involved and was there a kit or something.

I am really just interested in getting it to fire on gas with little to no trouble. and perhaps new injectors on the diesel side... but the thing is 60+ years old.... things get rusty and im scared to get too far in there in fear i cant find parts

kenny
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:51 AM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: UD-14 I think help

Perhaps it's better to start out with the basics, a compression test and maybe some oil pressure readings will give you a lot of insight into the health of the engine. no reason to start tearing down the motor if it's still in good shape!

Robert
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:54 AM
ronm ronm is offline
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Default Re: UD-14 I think help

Starting problems in the gas-start IH's usually come down to either gas or spark, like any gas engine, but there's a couple things unique to the animal. There is a "flipper" in the intake manifold that routes air through the carb when on gas. If this is stuck or broken, it won't start. There is linkage from this shaft to the carb that holds the float valve shut when on diesel, also a switch in the manifold that shorts out the mag. it's hard to see this, you may have to pull the hood to see between the manifold & the head, but make sure all this stuff moves when you throw the starting lever. Other than that, just make sure the mag is making spark & the plugs aren't fouled, & the carb is getting gas. These are one of the coolest engines ever built, & like BT said, they will start when some other diesels won't...I have a TD6 dozer w/a smaller version of the same engine. If you kill it hot, & your batteries & starter are real good, it's possible to start it directly on Diesel, but cold, not so much....
HTH-Ron in CO
PS-the place to get info on these is on the Red Power forum, if you can ever get on...the moderators there are not on the ball like Craig, Beth, & Harry-thanks to them for the best-run site on the web... (My butt-kiss for the day)...
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: UD-14 I think help

There is a fellow Stak'er (cat d9) who lives in South Dakota, that rebuilds old Austin/Western MotorGraders. I had a in depth conversation with him a couple years back, when the Shift Lever popped out of the Tower on our Grader, and I needed some information on the repair procedures for it. He is very knowledgeable on these older machines, and I am sure could be of some help, if you send him an eMail thru SmokStak.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:51 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: UD-14 I think help

The UD-14 is an IH engine, and it's been around for awhile; the "U" was IH's designation for many of their Power Units.
Binderbooks.com is supposed to have manuals on everything McC-Deering/IH ever produced (they don't, really) but they should have the manual on relatively modern engines like the UD-14 specifically and/or a generic manual on these gas-diesel models for basic tune-up and troubleshooting. Some show up on Ebay, too.
As to parts, my latest parts book (1992) shows both the UD-14 and 14A (a variation or upgrade) listed under "International Industrial engines" as "Power Units" using the IH D461 engine, listed therein as a tractor engine, 4cyl, 43/4x61/2, and used in other IH wheel and crawler tractors, and Lord knows what-all else like the A-W"s. Take the info from your dist tag to your local parts store and see what they find for a gas tune-up kit, and ask about engine parts (better take eng serial # if you can find one).
If engine considered obsolete (obsolete is often what that particular parts store doesn't stock and doesn't want to bother special ordering) other owners may be able to name sources, there are obsolete engine parts dealers, and Googling Int'l Diesel parts is always an option. Good luck.
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