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Non detergent oil or detergent oil?


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  #1  
Old 11-17-2009, 01:22 AM
Christian Berlin Christian Berlin is offline
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Question Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

do i want to use non detergent oil or detergent oil in my cylnder oiler???
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2009, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: oil

I think most will agree on # 30 non detergent.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:21 AM
jht1057 jht1057 is offline
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I would suggest non detergent, as well as, low ash.
Ash content is common in most oils, but low ash is the best.

Jim
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

Personally, for the cylinder oiler on a "total loss" engine, I don't think it matters a bit whether or not the oil is detergent.

In fact, it probably doesn't matter whether the oil is the cheapest discount brand or the most expensive synthetic. The best of the oils originally used in our flywheel engines aren't nearly as good as the worst oils available today.

At least, that's my opinion. Free and worth all you paid!

Take care - Elden
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Last edited by Elden DuRand; 11-17-2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Fix typrgraphical eror
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

Elden, Perfectly said. In a once through system it makes no difference. Actually the worst oils today are better than many made even as recent as 20 years ago. The demands of lubricating oil on engines of today's vehicles are high. With emission control, fuel economy standards, and machining tolerances of the engine increasing all of the time, the petroleum industry is constantly making improvements to keep up. For example: I remember as a young engineer in college in the 1980's changing the oil in my car. When I drained it, it came out black and really nasty, even when changed every 2500 miles and on a relatively "new" engine. Today even after 4000 mile on an oil change the oil comes out a dark amber. The oil does not break down as fast from heat like it used to. I understand everyone has an opinion on oil and what is best. As with Elden this is my $.02
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I prefer non-detergent simply because I have a few engines that have some blow-by. I discovered that detergent oil will carry with it the combustion by-products and spray out the back of the engine like black ink. There is still a mess with the non-detergent oil, but nowhere near like the detergent oil. My choice is not based on lubricating quality and I wholeheartedly agree with Eldon and Wayne on modern oils being far superior. In my opinion, I don't think there are any modern lubricants that will hurt these old engines in any way. At least I haven't found any. I also keep a good supply of ND oil on hand to use in old splash lubed engines that may have sludge deposits. Don't want to break that stuff loose and run it through the engine. My 2 cents worth.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:09 AM
Kevin Pate Kevin Pate is offline
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

On my International LA I use conventional diesel oil (15w-40) due to it having a larger amount of ZDDP in it unlike the other oils these days. Back when I had an open crakcase engine w/ drip oiler I just ran regular 30w oil. Like Eldon said, can't be any worse than te old parafin based oils of yesteryear.....
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:08 PM
Leonard Keifer Leonard Keifer is offline
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I suspect, that if we really knew the history of some of these engines, we'd find that some had the used Model T or tractor oil that the farmer had available put through them.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

We've used both types in our Ruston diesel, the benefit of detergent oils is that they WILL take out all the old crud and leave the engine clean, while ND oils will leave it much as you found it, although modern ND oils have more detergent that you would suspect.

We run a couple of diesel vans and use fully synthetic detergent in them, 15W-40, and our petrol V8 also runs that oil.

Peter
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:44 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

Now thats thinking with your dipstick jimmy
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

The only experiance I have had after removing a head, was to clean what looked like chocolate out of the combustion area. I was using 30w detergent. I have since learned that 30w non-detergent will burn more complete and leave less residue. So I would recommend any oil that will burn. Non-detergent, Marvel Mystery oil, WD-40 or 2 cycle motor oil. If you have a lot of blowby I would recommend at least a 30w non-detergent or heavier. I use the best oil a $1.79 can buy from Dollar General. As with Elden and Wayne that is my opinion and is worth exactly .02 give or take a couple pennys.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I have to agree with alot of you guys. It really doesnt matter. Detergent or non-detergent as this is a total loss oiling system.

Truth be known like leonard said, These engines probably had USED oil ran through them at some point in time. I really wouldnt be suprised to find that as fact. Exept for maybee the self contained oiling engine.


When it comes to most farm engines which are a total loss oil engine, it really doesnt matter. As long as there is a film in the cylinder to prevent lock-up and friction, your good to go.

But ofcource TODAY, being oil and grease is such an easily obtainable item, WHY NOT just use clean, HD or NON HD. 20 or 30 weight. You chose. Some guys probably even ran gear oil in them on a badly wore engine.

Last edited by Sky; 11-17-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:17 PM
Hank Czerwick Hank Czerwick is offline
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I was told by the original operator (it was on a cement mixer at a boy scout camp). That he always will remember that engine smelling like rancid bacon grease . . . . . . Because that's what was used to lube it was bacon fat!
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:28 PM
makoman1860 makoman1860 is offline
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

As an engineering guy working at an engine company I have a general rule of thumb. Engines that consume oil, need an ashless oil free of heavy metals and calcium. Those additives just build up hard deposits and in high performance engines can actually cause pre-ignition once deposits are made. Other side effects are stuck rings, valves, and the like. All bad things. You dont need ZDDP, TCP, or much of anything for anti-wear additives in these vintage engines, they are designed for basicly straight mineral oil. You want a good cylinder oil? Go to you local airport FBO and pick up some aeroshell oil 65, 80, 100 or 120 ( sae 30, 40, 50 and 60 respecively ). Straight mineral oil, compounded nicely and burns without any deposits.
-Aaron
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Old 11-17-2009, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I use 30 weight non detergent in my engine oilers and even in my maytags, I buy the $3-4 a quart oil, usually quaker state, probably waisting my money but ohh well. Like stated, both types are probably ok to use, one just burns cleaner. Farmers didn't care what they used in their engines. We have an engine we got from a local farmer who used it and used it hard for many years. All that engine was RUN on was used crude oil. The engine is still in good shape with good compression, so it just goes to show, really any oil will work and todays oil is far better than anything they had back when the engines were being used. So detergent or non detergent, it's far better than what oil used to be run through them. My two pennies.

Last edited by Shelby Babcock; 11-17-2009 at 10:32 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

The only thing I have to add is regarding "full" synthetic oils in the drip oiler...I owned a 3hp F/M that had a very well worn set of rings in it. Compression was minimal and it had a fair amount of piston blow. I didn't mind the mess of the blowby and the low compression made it easier to pull flywheels to start so I just ran it and enjoyed it. Took it to a show 200 miles from home....filled oiler with some fresh synthetic oil I had bought for something else and had some left over...engine would not start and run. The synthetic oil had allowed the compression to drop below what was necessary to get the engine to run. I think that the viscosity of the oils when cold made a large difference. Came home and changed oil to thicker conventional oil and it started right up and ran like it always had. Isolated case at best but might help someone else down the road.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

George:

What you say is something for me to consider! On the Hvid, I get a pretty fair amount of blowby and it seems to come and go. You've now got me thinking that I may want to go back to a non-detergent natural oil for the cylinder. Maybe there's something in the synthetic I'm now using that's incompatible with this application.

I'm also getting a lot of what I call "clag boogers" or fluffy particles of very dirty black carbon coming out of the exhaust. The particles could be forming out of the normal fuel soot because the lube oil isn't burning but is acting like a carrier for the soot.

I'll experiment and see. THEN, when I get results, I'll post my findings (that is, if I can remember).

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Old 11-18-2009, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I have used CASTOR oil in my drip oilers for several years. Seems to do a good job and the aroma is a lot better than stale gas!...I tried it in my NEW WAY closed crank and it was too light...It blew it out the crank journals pretty fast and made a mess!...I usually use 50 weight it it now for better leak control....Don't mix the two types of oil, or it really will make a mess!
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Old 11-18-2009, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

To promote long cylinder life I would think using detergant oils would be prefered because they have a tendancy to cary away the abrasive particles that cause cylinder wear. Sure it is a mess but aren't all lost oil systems anyway???Any oil made today would be better than no oil...
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Non detergent oil or detergent oil?

I still have to say that all the oil that lubes the cylinder is not lost. Getting by the rings , lubing the valve stems and even if you lube the packing on you fuel pump some of it ends up in the combustion chamber. The additives in detergent oil won't burn and turns to sludge and sticks to the valves, cylinder wall between the piston and head and the igniter... thats when it gets ugly,hard to start, intake valve sticks (rung). Most non detergent oils have good enough lubricity for these old engines as they were designed to run on it. Now for the rod, crankbearing, rockerarm, pushrods, cam and gearing, and other areas out of the combustion area run what you like. So if some of you do have sludge build up that could be what it's from??
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