lousy engine business on ebay

Need to blow some smoke here. An engine I won on ebay showed up this morning in non running condition despite being posted as running condition. I understand the safe gaurd of the statement... "selling as is". But to compound that, the engine is more than 2 weeks late from the time he SAID he would send it. To top that off, he said twice that he would send the tracking # of the parcel of which he never did. I wrote him an email asking where my engine was and he stated that "he hadn't gotten around to sending the larger parcels yet", hence the reason it was overdue. He gave me a hard luck story about his wife leaving him, yada, yada, yada. It so happens that a few weeks ago, a friend also won an engine on ebay from this same person and had problems with the parcel being heavier than the actual engine and that he was unwilling to pay for that much additional weight. Well he got the same B.S. story about the wife leaving him, etc, etc. He was threatened with negative feedback unless he would lighten up the shipping container or forget the whole deal. The seller said he would rather forget the whole deal. What I'm unsure about is if I should leave negative feedback on this seller since I am not at all happy with the transaction but if I were to do so, I'm sure he would know who it was from and in the event of winning another auction from this person, if he would create problems for me or even go to the extent of leaving negative feedback on me just out of spite. Anybody had a similar expereience ?

I wouldn't worry much about the feedback being negative or neutral. I usually make a note to myself not to deal with that seller again in the future.

Yes you will leave feedback , if he deliberately misrepresented the item . We are counting on you to tell us if he is a weenie or not . Ebay is a little dicey for sellers , and you must do whatever it takes to make the buyer happy .

I sold a few bits of womens clothes for my significant other on eBay. lots of leather , all a woman's size 2 . I even gave physical measurements . All were returned as "misrepresented as wrong size " . It was real obvious that they couldnt strecth their fat behinds into a 2 , or they wore them to XmMas and New Years parties and simply returned them . No problem I refunded shipping and everything . Because as a seller I realize ITS MY FAULT ! Mental note , no more wommens clothing on eBay !! But I will cut you guys a real deal on some tiny leather pants with legs about thiiiiiiis long .


http://www.angelfire.com/tx/hotube/indexps.html

You have several seperate issues here;

1. Engine was not as described - This is the very serious issue, you can: a. demand a refund (which MAY entail you eating the shipping both ways, b. live with it. or c. go through ebay's safe harbor to seek a resolution (mediation/arbitration) which MIGHT get you a partial refund.

2. Slow ship time - this is rather subjective, and there are a thousand and one things that CAN go wrong. I once had a guy try to roast me (and screwed up a my wife's paypal account) because HE felt 5 days was too long to ship (we were away at a show and it was home...we simply could NOT ship it) We've also had customs (at both ends) sit on airmail packages for up to a month for no discernable reason, and please don't let me get started on what I think of the Canadian postal system. --- Is this guy's wife leaving providing a real excuse for crummy service? Domestic upheaval and depression does do funny things to people's priorities. He may well be doing the best that he can.

3. Feedback-- This is your call, but be aware that not only can he respond to any you leave, he can leave feedback for you as well (which, unless it is blatantly abusive or untrue, probably won't be removed) IMO the item not being as described is serious, the slow ship much less so, but I'm not you.

Lastly You seem to be worried about future transactions with this person, I'm not sure why. If this auction result was THAT bad, and your friend had a similar experience with the same gent, why would you bid again? My old Grammy always said "Cheat me once, shame on you; cheat me twice, shame on me"

I sell some stuff in ebay every now and then, and as a seller, I would hope that the person that had the "problem" with me would FIRST try to work things out before posting any negative feedback. HOWEVER, I also purchase items on ebay and rely on feedback to determine if I will place a bid or not.

I would contact the seller and let him know that it does not in fact run as it was advertised. If you REALLY want the engine, determine EXACTLY what it will take to make it run. If it is something simple, I would smile and play with your new engine! If it is something costly and/or too time consuming to deal with -- 1. ask for a refund or 2. ask for him to foot the bill or partaially foot the bill?

Because I buy and sell on ebay, I wanted to see if I recognized the sellers id and see if it was someone I had encountered problems with before.... -- turns out I do not...... but out of 5 auctions you have won, only 1 of them CLEARLY stated that it runs -- and very good at that! ( I am asssuming you are speaking of the Wisconsin Model AB, because ALL of the other auctions you have won have stipulations such as "last run on 12/29/2001 or 1/20/2002 or state clearly that they do not run -- however I did not see where it said " selling as is " ) --- this seller has 248 positive feedbacks - 0 neutrals and - 0 negatives --- that is pretty impressive! Furthermore, you've had another (more recent) transaction with this same seller. Due to the high positive feedback, I highly doubt that the seller is a putz.

All shipping problems aside..... I don't know about the sellers personal problems, and they certainly are not your problem, but maybe they did put a strain on things and a delay in shipping...... who knows.... if you've ever sold on ebay before -- It can get difficult to keep track of tracking numbers, emails, and everything else -- maybe the spouse is the one who usually deals with the computer and email stuff! I'm not saying give the guy positive feedback, that's up to you! But maybe ( if you two can work things out ) ---- Maybe the transaction didn't go as smooth as you would have liked, but maybe this is one of those times that a guy just needs a break.

Just my 2 cents worth....... I'm gonna close my mouth now!

I have bought many engines on ebay and almost all were advertised as running and almost none ran. I have purchased 9 Johnson Iron horseds on ebay. All advertised as running. So far I have been able to get 1 running with a couple even being stuck. With the bigger engines it seems anything that turns over is considered running. I have just learned to expect them not to run. I have bought restored engines also that just had a coat of shiney paint over very worn out parts. So I just dont bid as much on any engine as I wouild if I could hear it run myself. As for slow shipping I wouldnt worry about that as long as I had my purchase. I sometimes sell on ebay and often get behind. I they dont live close to town expect them to make a trip in once a week. It is also very easy to make a mistake on shipping. I have used ups online and a package price may change just by mixing length and Height or forgeting to click on residential can make a very big difference. I have also made the mistake of weighing an Item and guessing what the packing material will weigh.On the other hand if this guy sells a lot he should know better. As some one else said, this fellow may be honest and doing the best he can. .

Ebay is really starting to suck. I recently had to pay a jerk 4 bucks shipping and handeling for a Briggs Parts and Illustrated list that cost him 45 cents to ship. I paid 99 cents for the auction but he didn't advertise the shipping charges. My stupidity for not checking his feedback. Your seller deserves a negative feedback as he had apparently cheated you by decieving you about the engine. More negative feedbacks will save others from being cheated too. If he responds with a negative feedback, explain your sideof the story. Most folks know there are plenty of jerks out there.

MARTY: If you have been watching this board, you would have noticed that over this summer and at least 3-4 times in the last 5-6 weeks, that there have been several, I mean many postings about engines that ran perfect the night before a show at home. Were transported with TLC, and at the show they would'nt start or run, or keep running. I have four engines that I'm taking to a small local show on Thurs. I have not run them since this time last year. They ran great at that show a year ago. What should I call them if they don't start right up, NON-RUNNING ENGINES, or RUNNING ENGINES I DID'NT MAINTAIN LIKE THE OTHERS. Or I din'nt do things the way that you would have. I think there are a lot of variables. Could they have sat upside down for 8-10 days? Who knows what happens in transit. As for the family problems, I've been married 21yrs. this time, but when the two previous marriages were falling apart or whatever, life definatly was upside down, and priorities were absolutly out of wak. I don't know maybe you feel a need to jump down someones throat, well if that's the case then do what your conciense dictates. Patience, Understanding, and Compasion are virtues, not necessities. How about leaving no feedback at all, and not doing business with him again if you think you were cheated, but if I was sure I was cheated, I would'nt need to ask for other opinions, I would know I was cheated, and proceed with whatever I thought I should do, not what everyone else thought I should do. Do what YOU think is best, and that will be the right answer for you. Ranting and Raving solves little except it stirs everyone else up. Just another way of looking at things.......CHUCK

[Harry]

You paid $0.99 for the part and $4.00 for shipping and handling. (If I saw the right auction.) What paid for the carton to put it in, the addressing of the labels, and the trip to the post office? If the item cost .99 cents, that sure didn't get it to the post office.

I ship a lot of books. The padded envelope costs a minimum of $0.50. The post office is 18 miles round trip and that's good for a gallon under full efficiency. Packaging time? Drive time? Handling charges are a reality and some work for more money than others. Looks like this guy got paid $2.00 for his time. Good grief!

P.S. I forgot about eBay's posting fee and commissions. There goes the $2.00.

Harry, you should know better by now... its the DEAL that matters! The other guy's time and investment are worth 'zackley bupkis...

I found this out a LONG time ago when I made a very pretty wood traction engine model, I spent about $5-10 on materials, and about 10 hours building the thing. I THOUGHT I was doing the right thing by donating it to a benifit auction (at a steam show) it brought a whopping $2.75.

As for actually trying to make a living at a hobby, well you'd be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of guys who would gripe and try to wheedle you down even if you were selling dollar bills for 65c.

On the other hand there are some guys in this hobby who will go out of their way to try to make you happy too

I felt compelled to give my 2 cents, as I also buy and sell quite a bit on E-bay.

The proceeds from E-bay sales help with my little addiction problem to old iron. I as a seller try to treat everyone who buys from me fairly. There are some scam artists out there, particularly in the radio equipment business (which is primarly what I sell on E-bay). I have had friends who sell this stuff have got scammed by individuals getting working equipment and replacing componets inside with defunct boards and returning the equipment for refund. Down right dirty!!! So in a nutshell with my auctions, stuff is sold as is where is with no refunds. I have found in the past this seems to work ok as long as the buyer sees it up front.

I do not charge a handling fee to ship packages or for shipping supplies unless the item is oversized or needs something more than a card board box and bubble wrap. Many times have I under estimated shipping charges and wound up on the bad side of the shipping deal, but I accept that and eat the extra costs involved as part of doing the right thing.

As far as feedback is concerned I have in the past steered away from leaving negative feedback if at all possible but no more!! We do get a few deadbeat bidders from time to time and in the future the appropriate feedback will be left.

I think you have a definate gripe with the engine being mis-repersented as running. I have the opinion from a sellers stand point on the shipping issue that if the item arrived in good condition in a reasonable time frame all should be well.

Heck I ordered a few parts today from a supplier and was told shipping time would be 2 weeks for 3 or 4 items that will fit in an envelope, but I realize it does take time to get things done and I am willing to accept that.

Sorry to be so winded!!!

Denny (oldironcollector)

All of my dealings on ebay have been super, except one. That seller didn't answer my emails and didn't send the merchandise until a month had passed (even though he received a cashier's check). I left negative feedback for him. He retaliated by leaving negative feedback for me. Others had similar problems with him and he is no longer a registered seller. If I have the problem again, I'll just let it pass. Life is too short to get worked up by insignificant things.

Hi- The only time I actually complained to an Ebay seller about an item's condition, they made good on the deal and we both felt good about things

I've bought mags and mag parts that were misrepresented but I gave no feedback because I didn't complain and kept the parts. Are all engine guys beyond reproach? I don't think so !!

Life's too short to get mired down too deep for too long. I'd evaluate just the engine itself and how much you like it, and forget about the other stuff. Maybe this ends up being your favorite engine and you can tell its story with a twist !!

Pax vobiscum !!

As I sit here reading this thread I'm smiling. It seems not tolong ago someone had the same problem with a JD he had bought on E-Bay. I put in my 2 cents at that time about this situation. I don't know anyone that hasn't some thing or another happen to them on e-bay. Same for regular auctions. My solution about 4 yrs ago was not to use ebay anymore and not to go auctions. I personally think it was the smartest move I have made in this collecting hobby. I find exactly what I want and I can lokk it over, run it in some cases, don,t have to go against anybody such as bidding. They tell me what they want, I sometimes get it for a counter offer, and sometimes not, but I do get time to think about it, don

For some reason not everything I typed in posted on the above mesage. What it boils down to is that I,m the only person dealing with the owner not having to hurry my thinking and have all the time in the world so to speak to look the engine or whatever over. If I get burned then it,s my own damn fault and no one else,s. Best decision I ever made was not to go anymore auctions or use E-Bay. Thats my 2 cents worth

YOU Can Please some of the people all of the time You can please all of the people some of the time But you cant please all of the people all of the time!!!!!!! BobRR

So what exactly was/is the problem with the engine marty?

The problem is repairable but to my thinking prooves that it was not a running engine at the time he said it was a running engine and certainly can't be a problem that took place during transit. The impulse on the mag does not trip. Since I'm here at the tube anyway, I might add that I'm not doubting that he may have had wifey problems but you can't mix your personal life with your business life. I went thru a similar ordeal with the thing I married so I understand but that situation DOES NOT change the rules nor ethics of ebay. Should a killer be let off the hook because he "had a bad hair day" ? By the way, I'm not making a crisis out of this but will NOT condone that kind of business dealings. I got in touch with him and we agreed to a comprimise. If he is as good as his word on this, I will simply place no feedback.

Harry, sounds like your the one who sold me the list!

Hey there Paul~

I have been buying & selling on eBay for nearly 4 years, just about as long as you havent!

I have literatly bought and sold thousands of items. My feedback currently reflects 1600 unique positive transactions and 1793 if you include multiple transactions with the same person. And if every one I ever delt with had the decency to atleast give the same positive feedback that I gave them (And I leave feedback for EVERY transaction) my feedback would be some where around 4000.

Any way, my point. I have a collection of items, and it doesn't matter what I collect because the same goes honestly for any one who collects absoloutly ANYTHING, that I could have never, not in a hundred years of searching at every antique shop I came accross, put together any other way except that I was able to search and find each item on eBay. I will give an example to quench your curiosity. I collect condiment jars from a small company that existed in Wheeling WVa. from about 1881 to 1914. The name of the product jars is "Flaccus Bros. Steer's Head Brand Mustard. Before eBay, I had never as much as laid eyes on a jar and now I own at least 7 jars with the original label still intact! One such container I bought for $515.00 and later sold for $795.00 (To give you some idea of how rare these jars really are) I have attached a pic of a jar that I have that was once in the collection of Alex Kerr, the guy who owned Kerr glass (I am sure you have heard of a Kerr mason fruit jar) There is no way on God's green earth I could have even known this jar existed more less owned if I didn't buy it on eBay.

I won't say every transaction has been pleasant, not by a long shot. My last negative was given to me by a woman who had an invalid e-mail address & I couldn't even contact her. So she gave me a negative. Gee thanks lady! But the opportunity to make purchases that I could never have dreamed of making before far out weighs any bad transactions I have ever had with online auctions!

PS: I bought my first engine on eBay and yes the guy said it was running, and no it wasn't. But it is my reverse running Associated air-cooled Hired Hand and right now I wouldn't trade it for about any thing!

Keith & Suzanne Smigle

E-mail: ksmigle@hotmail.com

Ebay User ID: flaccus-brother

"If you are not on the cutting edge, You are taking up too much space."


Flaccus & Elliott jar once owned by Alex Kerr