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Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?


Erd Motor Co/Motors Corporation, originally a marine engine builder, also built TF 4 x 6 and TFU 4...

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  #1  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:09 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Erd Motor Co/Motors Corporation, originally a marine engine builder, also built TF 4 x 6 and TFU 4 1/4 x 6 tractor engines...

Dave Hoover posted a 1-20-1919 letter from Erd saying, directly, that they also made larger 4 1/2 and 4 3/4 engines (Bates Steel Mule Model D thread), and ref books listings of Erd 4 1/2 x 6 and 4 3/4 x 6 engines exist, but no real verification of such larger engines seems to exist...

G Willikers has advised the Erds set up the Chief Engine factory in Canada, and ref books list Chief 4 x 6 and 4 3/4 x 6 engines...it's possible the Chiefs were actually Erds, and that Chief built the 4 1/2 and 4 3/4 engines, and they were sold both as Chiefs and as Erds... (I'm in contact with Dave H and GW to compare notes)...

Does anyone have any information re Erd 4 1/2 or 4 3/4 engines, or Chief engines of any size??? Any comments appreciated. Many thxx!! Bud
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Old 07-28-2010, 04:00 PM
xplor xplor is offline
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Default Re: ERD??/CHIEF?? 41/2x6 AND/OR 43/4x6 ENGINES??

SPECIAL OFFER—New four-cylinder four-cycle latest improved high grade quality Erd tractor motors, rating 12-H. P. at 600 revolutions, weighing about four hundred pounds, fully equipped, including magneto ignition and the successful Taco governor control. Cost complete. $350. A limited number offered for quick sale at but $175. An ideal outfit for general power purposes. Badger Motor Co.. Milwaukee, Wis
Tractor and gas engine review, Volume 15 1922
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:01 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

BUD!
It took me a while, but I finally found an ad for the Chief motors. It is from a January, 1918 "The Canadian Implement and Vehicle Trade and Power Farming (of Canada)" magazine. I had other references of the Erds setting this up - now to find those!
Aloha,
G.
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:24 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Bud,
Found one reference from the January, 1918 Canadian Farm Implements magazine that J.G. Erd and Harry Erd were establishing the Chief Motor Co. in Toronto. They would be operating heads of the new company.
G.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:25 PM
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Paul Searl Paul Searl is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

A chief 4 3/4 x 6 is the engine of record for the 12-25 Port Huron in nebraska test 69 in 1920. an earlier listing in a catalog had the Port Huron as a 4 x 6 Erd.
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:35 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Looks like one more engine connection question solved!
GW: many thxx for keeping my question in mind.
Paul: many thxx for illuminating comment.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:56 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Just came across this (again?) so thought it should go in here - 1918.
RM.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Curtis Baldwin built a standing grain harvester in the mid 1910's that used a 30hp 3 1/4 X 6 Erd engine 900 RPM, atleast that is what the brochure says. I have factory pictures and the brochure but have never seen one.
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:29 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

GW'ERS: Forgot to ask if you'd noticed the post on oldmarineengine from a Geoffrey Pelkey at the Castle Museum in Saginaw, in the thread where the Museum was looking for an Erd engine to display??
That post also said they had a batch of Erd information, and they'd be glad to answer Erd questions...I believe (but can't find in my notes) I saw an Erd boat motor ad referring to "...the interchangeability built into our engines..."
Didn't say, of course, whether that applied to replacement parts for each particular engine model or whether, like LeRoi, parts would swap between different engine models.
GLNR: Erd began building engines around late 1880s, primarily marine (Richard Durgee, oldmarineengine); would you verify the bore?? (in the few other Erd engine b/s I have none show the 6" stroke other than the 4" to 43/4"...many thxx!!)
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:15 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Bud,
Hadn't seen that reference to marine museum wanting an Erd motor? Good luck to them as they are a pig to find!
Just wondering how they worked out as they kept upping the bore? The 4x6 motors I have worked on, though well built, were fairly light in some ways - rods and crank, for example. The Erd tags claimed 40 hp if memory serves while the tractor might have been rated 22 or 25 on the belt. Good thing they never added a supercharger!
Erd used a funny set up for attaching the cylinder heads as well - recessed nuts that you could only get with an open ended wrench. Not much for torque values - just get 'em as tight as you dared!
For anyone on Stak - if you see any Erd motors in the wild, buy 'em! Can't think you will have any difficulty finding a buyer down the road. I know of several people on the look right now.
RM.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:20 PM
Norm Johnston Norm Johnston is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Bud /G Willikers
I have followed this thread with interest as I have the opportunity to recover a Bates steel mule tractor in a very sad state and in need of most of an ERD engine, it appears as finding one will be almost impossible. this only makes the restoration more of a challenge, I have on a few occaisions considered casting a complete set of engine components, maybe to restore this one that may have to happen
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:01 PM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Norm,
Good luck on your quest!
The problem with the Erd motors is that though they were used on a large number of different tractor makes, most of those were companies that did not build in huge numbers. Your Bates may have been the larger producer of Erd powered tractors.
In working on an 11-22 Sawyer-Massey tractor a few years back, it needed a new head. I was able to get hold of some Sawyer parts from Alberta and a fairly complete motor out of a Bates in the Chicago area. These parts went into a couple of Sawyer-Masseys and the remainder went to a another collector to help complete several odd ball tractors. I have never come across any Erd parts since then but am always looking!
All the best,
RM.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Tierney View Post
GW'ERS: Forgot to ask if you'd noticed the post on oldmarineengine from a Geoffrey Pelkey at the Castle Museum in Saginaw, in the thread where the Museum was looking for an Erd engine to display??
That post also said they had a batch of Erd information, and they'd be glad to answer Erd questions...I believe (but can't find in my notes) I saw an Erd boat motor ad referring to "...the interchangeability built into our engines..."
Didn't say, of course, whether that applied to replacement parts for each particular engine model or whether, like LeRoi, parts would swap between different engine models.
GLNR: Erd began building engines around late 1880s, primarily marine (Richard Durgee, oldmarineengine); would you verify the bore?? (in the few other Erd engine b/s I have none show the 6" stroke other than the 4" to 43/4"...many thxx!!)
The brochure says 30hp 3 1/4" X 6" 900 RPM Erd engine. Here is one of the "Standing Grain Threshers" in front of the factory building when it was in Nickerson Kansas.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

I made a typo in the above post. The Erd engine is a 30hp 4 1/4" X 6" at 900 RPM. No model number is listed for the engine. I sure wish I could find one of these machines one day.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

I was told by a noted tractor collector the Erd engines are on the chintzy side....... ........true?
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Brasherman Brasherman is offline
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Default Re: Erd?/Chief? 4 1/2x6 and/or 4 3/4x6 Engines?

That pic of the combine is awesome. It almost looks like some of the more experimental heads from a few years back! And the part where they cut out the building higher to get the vertical pipe out......!

"Won't fit out the door? Bigger hammer!"
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