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Generators & Motors General Discussion Antique Generators, Light Plants and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Motors General Discussion

Light Plant


OK guy we found an old light plant at the deer camp..About all I know about it so far is that it...

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  #41  
Old 11-09-2010, 08:27 PM
cdray cdray is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Your project is looking great! Keep the updates coming. David.
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  #42  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Slick 50 Slick 50 is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Thanks David,

This has been a lot of fun. I think Mike has got a kick out of it too. We have been emailing each other about the project.
Adding a few more pictures for the curious.

Rick
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Kubota Generator 007.jpg   Kubota Generator 002.jpg   Kubota Generator 009.jpg   Kubota Generator 003.jpg  
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  #43  
Old 11-10-2010, 09:12 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

I would recommend the 50A [12KW] so if you ever upgrade the engine you will still be ready. and I would do 4 wire, not 3, but add one of those "AirConditioner" outside disconects so that the N & E can be tied together for bonded use [in the field] or unbonded [feeding an already bonded transfer situation]
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  #44  
Old 11-10-2010, 10:39 AM
Slick 50 Slick 50 is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Thanks for the info.

I've been trying to figure out exactly what I want to do with breakers and panels to protect the generator and its loads. Have considered a disconnect in the generators terminal box along with a 3 or 4 space panel in the light plants control box. That may be a little over kill. Hard wiring power from the generator terminal box to the light plants control box shouldn't be a problem, should it?

Just to double check how to wire a 4 wire single phase generator bonded and unbonded. How should it be done?

I will add a couple pictures of the terminal box.

Thanks for your help.
Rick
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Kubota Generator 006.jpg   Kubota Generator 001.jpg  
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  #45  
Old 11-10-2010, 01:08 PM
Slick 50 Slick 50 is offline
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I spent some time with Google and studied about bonded and unbonded neutrals. I do know this generator is a floating neutral and my homes main power panel is neutral/ground bonded. In a power outage the house panel's neutral will not be switched so I need to leave the generator unbonded and have only one bonding of neutral and ground at the house main panel. Does this sound correct? As far as 4 wire I would run 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground each as a circuit with the houses system. Does this sound correct?

The generator will be used only for back-up power for my home.

Thanks again for any help.
Rick
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  #46  
Old 11-10-2010, 01:14 PM
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Talking Re: Light Plant

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick 50 View Post
The generator will be used only for back-up power for my home. Thanks again for any help. Rick
Rick, If the above is true, then why mount the genset on a trailer, and not a fixed place near the abode?
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  #47  
Old 11-10-2010, 02:20 PM
Slick 50 Slick 50 is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Mike has been saying the same thing. The only reason I have not done this is the wife and I are planning on a move from Texas to Louisiana in the next year or so. For those of you in the bayou country, outside of Springfield, between Baton Rouge and New Orleans just off Blood river near Ticfaw state park. How's that for a description.

Rick
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2010, 03:01 PM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

yes the generator is at present unbonded [see below]

the flat bar connecting 2 of the winding ends will be the neutral and the other two then the 240 volt [each 120 to N] and obviously where the voltage regulator is connected.

the main reason for leaving the generator portable [besides your moving] is one may use breaker interlocks rather than a transfer system that the NEC requires of permenently installed backup power.

see http://www.interlockkit.com/


the two hot outputs and neutral should connect first to a breaker box on the trailer with an isolated neutral buss.
I suggest one at least large enough for a 50 A 240 volt [12KW] main which should protect the gen end and then sub breakers to the control panel outlets either 15 or 20 A depending on outlet type [20A has the T shaped neutral slot]
and a 35 A for the heavier 240 V outlet [35 is close to the engine 8KW rating] a 40 or 50 amp 4 prong outlet [2 hots, neutral and frame ground]

an AirConditioner disconect, [you can lock the cover] as mentioned above [or any locking switch] to connect the neutral to frame only when NOT feeding a bonded transfer such as the interlocked breakers.
a plug for the outlet and lots of 3conductor#6+G [#8 if you dont need to go too far]

Last edited by armandh; 11-10-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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  #49  
Old 11-10-2010, 04:52 PM
Slick 50 Slick 50 is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Thanks for taking the time to describe the line-up.

I just got back from Lowe's, bought a short length of #6 3 wire with ground and flex conduit with ends to make the run from the generator to the trailers control panel. Dealing with this small stuff forces us to buy separate main and sub panels rather than a single main breaker control panel. Square D has a 125 amp main breaker panel that would work but the cost is more than 2 of the smaller panels.

Thanks again,
Rick
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  #50  
Old 11-10-2010, 08:45 PM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

what ever works
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  #51  
Old 11-14-2010, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Light Plant

Kubota D905 Update:

The generator wiring was completed today. It has a 4 wire 50 amp 240 volt receptacle along with a standard 120 volt receptacle. Wound up using the original double pole 250 volt Airpax breaker that is rated at 25 amps and trips at 31.7. Made a 30' #8 4 wire extension cord with the matching 4 wire 50 amp plugs on each end to tie into a 40 amp 2 pole circuit in the garage. The garage ties to the house with a 70 amp feed.

The generator was started and ran for about 3 hours this evening. Different loads from my home were put on it from the 240 volt oven and air conditioner along with 120 volt misc items. The AVR held voltage to 121 volts on each leg very well under all loads. The Airpax breaker did trip during the air conditioner trial. The compressor came up fine but when the circulating fan came on it pushed one leg past the 31.7 amp trip point. At the time one leg had 31 something amps and the other leg had 29 something amps. It got dark quick!

It appears the generator needs a larger breaker. I plan to read up some more on the Kubota governor to verify engine loading. The little Kubota ran well with no problems.

Yes, I am happy and wanted to say thanks to everyone for their help. Very much appreciated.
Rick
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  #52  
Old 11-14-2010, 10:33 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

given the oversizing of the gen end you will know you are at the limit when the engine wont keep up and starts to slow [even with a new air filter]

with the nearly 12KW capacity of the generator [50 X 240 = 12000]
the engine capicity will likely be the limiting factor
since this is a stand by situation engine life is not the sort if issue it would be in a prime power use

I have a 20 yr old tractor with one of those 3 cylinder diesels still running great.

Last edited by armandh; 11-14-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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  #53  
Old 11-14-2010, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Light Plant

It was dark yesterday when the generator wiring was completed so no pictures. This morning a few pictures were taken. It's not professional but its clean and it works. If you see something that should be changed or is dangerous, please tell me.

The cover and sides for the trailer will be the next project. The side doors are badly rusted and will need to be replaced. The rest of the parts will clean up with the help of a soap, a wire wheel, rust killer and paint.

Rick
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Kubota Generator 007.jpg   Kubota Generator 008.jpg   Kubota Generator 010.jpg  
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  #54  
Old 11-14-2010, 04:17 PM
Lawdawg Lawdawg is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Hi Rick
With your Project you have turned A Lamp on above my Head. I have an old SA-200 Lincoln Welder that all of the Magic Smoke has Escaped from. the Engine is A Perkins Diesel 28/30 Hp it will need an overhaul but it will turn A Generator head from Georgia Generator very Nicely. That is to be my next Project rebuild the Prime Mover then Purchase one of the aforementioned Gen. Heads in 15/18 KW 120/240 4 Wire Brushless Configuration and then purchase An ABT to connect it to the shore power to my Home and I will be good to go. Look me up when you get Settled in In Springfield/Tickfaw area I am in Maurepas near Blind River. Doug. dwdedon@yahoo.com
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  #55  
Old 11-15-2010, 01:11 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

just out of frame on the right of the last photo is the back feeding plug?
just be sure the point where it feeds the main panel is interlocked with the main breaker such that the main and the generator cannot both feed at the same time.
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  #56  
Old 11-15-2010, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Light Plant

Doug, that sounds like a great project. The Perkins is a fine engine. Is that HP you mentioned at 1800 RPM? What type of hook-up or coupling does the Perkins have? We enjoy Kevin's down the road from you and miss Middendorf's.

armandh, thanks for all your help and suggestions. The breaker inter-lock device is the direction I am going but not there yet. To do this there will need to be another 40 or 50 amp circuit pulled to the garage.

Rick
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  #57  
Old 11-15-2010, 11:51 AM
Lawdawg Lawdawg is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

Hi Rick
Yes 28/30 HP 1800/2000 RPM range the engine is very steady RPM wise with the Mechanical Govenor. I Have Eaten at Kevin's on the waterfront many times. they used to be down Hwy 22 East between me and Tickfaw then they moved to Diversion Canal and the old place Burned down they have had A Kitchen/Stack fire in the new place a while back. I also go to Mindendorfs also they have some good fried Catfish. Doug.

Hi Rick
I forgot the Question abt the coupling it bolts through the end of the Crankshaft with a long bolt, but I have A Machine shop at my Disposal if I do not rush my Younger Brother too much he can make anything I need. he has several Lathes several milling Machines both Vertical and Horizontal and Stick tig and mig welding equipment. so if I ask nicely and hold my mouth right and don't rush him he can make what ever I need. ps he Built A 1/4 scale Hit and Miss engine that runs from Scratch (NO CASTINGS) just to see if he could make one that would run he built it all including the Gears to make it a Hit and miss engine about the only thing he did not build was the Valve Springs. Doug.
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  #58  
Old 11-19-2010, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Light Plant

Light plant update:

The new 37.5 amp Airpax breaker came in today. A quick breaker switch from the 31.5 amp breaker to the new 37.5 amp breaker and fired the Kubota up. The central AC was ran without a problem. The AC compressor will dim the lights, hopefully a new start capacitor will help this problem.

Rick
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  #59  
Old 11-19-2010, 11:30 PM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

most central AC it is a run cap
but you are right that a fresh one makes a big difference
a clip on amp meter is a good idea, and handy to balance the load

please be extra carefull until you install some mains interlock
buying the gen end twice ..... OUCH

Last edited by armandh; 11-19-2010 at 11:37 PM.
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  #60  
Old 11-20-2010, 12:50 AM
Slick 50 Slick 50 is offline
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Default Re: Light Plant

armandh, thanks for all your help. I have a couple Fluke meters, one is a clamp on amp meter. The hard start capacitor will be added to the existing run capacitor. I have read these capacitors will minimize the high starting amps of the compressor and will also extend its life. Is there any truth in this? A Square D inter-lock is in the mail heading my way. You are absolutely right about buying 2 generator heads. I sure don't want to hurt any one or mess up equipment.

Thanks again,
Rick
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