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Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel


I am buying a 2nd Honda Eu2000i generator so that I can run the AC unit on my RV by running it in...

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Old 08-09-2010, 04:23 PM
jas67 jas67 is offline
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Default Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

I am buying a 2nd Honda Eu2000i generator so that I can run the AC unit on my RV by running it in parallel with the one that I already have.

For those not familiar with the EU2000i, it and the other Honda inverter generators, as well as competitive units from Yamaha and some Chinese makers can be run in parallel with like units.

They all seem to do it by just connecting the outputs in parallel before starting, and the electronics of the inverters take care of phasing.

My question is, has any one here tried, or think it would work properly, if I connected each of my Eu2000i's to separate halves of a split-phase autotransformer (240V with a 120V center tap)?

If they work by having the 2nd started unit automatically phase itself with the first by sensing the voltage, then this may work. If they send some carrier signal over the lines that might not make it across a transformer, then it might not.

The reason that I'd like to do this, is so that these generators can do double duty of not only providing power for our RV when we're away, but also backup power at home. The only 240VAC load that I'd be running is our 1/2 HP 240VAC well pump, which runs fine off of the 3.3 KW Chinese clone of a Yanmar generator. The two Honda's in parallel can provide up to 4 KW for up to 30 minutes, and 3.2 KW continuously, but only a 120 VAC.

I guess another way to do this, would be to just use a step up transformer for the well pump.

I prefer diesel vs. gas for the home backup for several reasons, especially for the storage life of the fuel, but this little screamer (the Chinese diesel) is really loud. If I have gasoline on hand, I'd prefer to run the Honda's, at least for the overnight hours.

Thanks in advance!
Jay
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:53 PM
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Talking Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

I do NOT have the definitive answer to the question, HOWEVER in looking at the question, you have made a critical Assumption error, while thinking about the problem. In any 120/240 Vac System, the Phasing of the two Legs, MUST be 180 Degrees apart, NOT zero (0) degrees as is required by Parallel Generation Systems. This can be done by using a transformer, with a Secondary Twin Winding, or a Center Tapped Secondary Winding, but NOT from two Inverter type Gensets that can be connected in parallel.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:25 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas67 View Post
My question is, has any one here tried, or think it would work properly, if I connected each of my Eu2000i's to separate halves of a split-phase autotransformer (240V with a 120V center tap)?
Jay-

There is a chance this could work, but there may still be a fly in the ointment. Under loaded conditions, there may not be enough coupling to maintain synchronization.

What should work is to use parallel-connected generators to feed HALF of the autotransformer. Then 240 VAC would be available across both windings with power limited by the transformer's capacity.

Such a setup would perform the same function as a transformer with 120 VAC primary and 240 VAC secondary. Which is best may depend on what transformers you can get your hands on.

Fred
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:34 PM
jas67 jas67 is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

I have a two-winding 2KVA transformer with a 240vac primary and a center-tapped 240/120vac secondary. I thought about just using it in reverse to run my well pump.

Any problem back feeding the panel with an interlock device preventing the main and the backfeed breaking (double pole) from both being on, and connecting both poles to the paired (120V) Honda's, and then manually switching the pump over to the transformer produced 240VAC?
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Old 08-10-2010, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

That would NEVER pass an NEC Inspection, and if something caught fire, your Insurance would be Void.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:36 AM
agentv3 agentv3 is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

To be honest, I'm not sure how the Hondas would handle that operation, the inverters are designed to electronically sync together when the paralleling kit is used, but only for 120v and only to double their capacity. At best, it works as designed and everyone is happy, but it also might zap the inverters as well, rendering those (expensive) EUs nothing more than red boat anchors. Even worse, you're taking a gamble on your house electrical system with a setup that is very experimental, which could land you on the front page of the local newspaper if anything goes sideways.

Now, both Honda and Yamaha make inverter generators that are rated for 120/240v, but they're not cheap. On the upside, though, you'll have a system that's designed for 240v with the noise reduction and fuel savings that those inverters offer.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:58 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

running the gens in parallel as they were intended
and using only the 120-0-120 winding
connect the paralleled gens to one 0-120 part
and the house to the 120-0-120

keep the side of the house load that is the greatest on the side that is connected to the gens

fuse the other side at the rating of the transformer.

I doubt this will be enough to run a well pump
the ones I have delt with are usually on 30A circuits

I have a 7.2 KW 120-0-120 1800 rpm Kohler powered gen set I am fairly sure would

it barely blinks at a window AC unit startup, its a keeper

---------- Post added at 08:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 AM ----------

also be sure to shed all possible load
forget about big electric draws
just flip the breakers off

electric
driers,
water heaters,
stoves,
ovens,
AC

if you want central AC think about 12KW or better gen

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 AM ----------

please be sure to use all the correct bonding and legal transfer protocol

---------- Post added at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

PS

does the little diesel have a idle set back?

if so, running just the pump, it would scream only when the pump is running

---------- Post added at 08:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 AM ----------

still money would be better spent on a larger 120-0-120 inverter gen for the quiet night time use
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:46 PM
agentv3 agentv3 is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

Checking the manual on my Yamaha EF2000, in parallel operation it can handle 25A continuous, 30A starting at 120v (at 240v, this would be 12.5A and 15A), it should be identical for the Honda EU2000. Check the motor on your well pump for it's amperage rating, if it's anything over 12.5A at 240V, your two Honda EUs won't have the gusto to run the well pump. The biggest inverter generator Yamaha makes is the EF6300iSDE, and it can handle 22.9A running, and 26.3A starting at 240v, if your well pump draws less than this, then this is the way you should go.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:08 PM
Larry Rusch Larry Rusch is offline
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Default Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

BTPost said "That would NEVER pass an NEC Inspection, and if something caught fire, your Insurance would be Void."

What specifically violates NEC? As I understand it, reverse connecting single phase transformers larger than 1KVA is acceptable with no loss of rating or other adverse effects. If the proper interlocks are installed, what is in violation? What am I missing here?

Larry Rusch
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:10 PM
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Talking Re: Honda EU2000i -- stack for 240V operation, instead of just parallel

Just ask your local Electrical Permitting Authority, if what has been proposed here, would pass their Inspection and see what they say. All the inspectors I know, would not pass such a setup.
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