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Generators & Motors General Discussion Antique Generators, Light Plants and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Motors General Discussion

Older Dayton generator help/info


I got an older 120/240v 4000watt dayton generator from a friend, at first the engine wasn't running...

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  #1  
Old 10-17-2010, 05:18 PM
oganix oganix is offline
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Default Older Dayton generator help/info

I got an older 120/240v 4000watt dayton generator from a friend, at first the engine wasn't running well but the generator did put out electricity so I cleaned the carb/air filter, new plug, oil. I was adjusting the carb and playing with the throttle wide open then off to try and clear things out, anyway got the engine running great but during that process it stopped putting out electric.

Model: 3zc12a

I haven't been able to find a manual online or much info on this model.

I also have a few questions about its normal output, the overcurrent breakers dont mention the amperage they trip at, but I think it would be 240v=30 or 33a circuit breaker then the 120v circuit is it 15 or 20 amps?
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2010, 06:19 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Older dayton generator help/info

You said you got the engine running great. Is part of this great is you have it running at idle? If so, generators of this type DO NOT idle. The engine on generator needs to run near 3600 RPM before any power is made. In fact when 60 HZ power is coming from 2 pole a generator, the engine is turning exactly 3600 RPM. It is best to set the governor so the NO-LOAD output frequency is about 62 HZ so when the generator is fully loaded the output frequency does not fall below 58 HZ.

Kent
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2010, 09:53 AM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

Quote:
Originally Posted by oganix View Post
I also have a few questions about its normal output, the overcurrent breakers dont mention the amperage they trip at, but I think it would be 240v=30 or 33a circuit breaker then the 120v circuit is it 15 or 20 amps?
NO! 4000 watts is 16.66 amps per leg. 120 is pulled off just one leg at a time so you have to balance the load to around 15 amps per leg if you want the full 4000 watts@ 120 volts. At 120 volts think of it as two, 2000 watt generators runing side by side.
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:54 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

Several Dayton models are included in the Clymer service manual volume 1, but I don't see the 3zc12a listed. Most have a "W" instead of a "Z".

I agree that a 20 Amp breaker is correct for each leg of the 240 Volts. Unless your model happens to have the option of paralleling the two 120 Volt windings, half of the 120 outlets are fed from one side of the 240, and half the other.

Racing the engine to clean it out, may have generated much higher voltage than some diodes can tolerate. Diodes may be used for the field (fed through brushes) or for battery charging. If it has an electronic voltage regulator, that could have been zapped.

Fred
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  #5  
Old 10-18-2010, 01:10 PM
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Talking Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

Google is your friend on this Genset. http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=b...n=Dayton+3ZC12 Everything you wanted to know about the 3ZC12, but were afraid to ask.....
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:08 PM
KEB KEB is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

First place to look is the rectifier diodes in the exciter. If you're running the engine at full throttle, I'd be willing to bet you blew the diodes by exceeding their rated voltage/current. Hopefully it blew the diodes before it burned out the exciter or field windings....

Generators are intended to run at only one speed, determined by the number of poles, i.,e 3600 RPM for a two pole machine and 1800 RPM for a four pole machine. With a simple self excited generator, output voltage is mostly directly related to speed; the exciter circuit doesn't have a whole lot of voltage range over which it can control the output voltage.

Overspeeding the generator would produce some higher voltage than it was designed for, as well as producing higher frequency.

Keith
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:58 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

If you decide that the bridge rectifier is shot this one might be a retrofit! (replacement)
Most are rated 6-8 amps area, so this one will be a heavy duty version and will replace yours per the wiring diagram at the parts tree link! I noticed that the Dayton part numbers are obselete and so are most of the generator head parts!

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...-1206&catname=

We can tell you how to check the bridge rectifier unit if you have a multimeter!
Be sure and draw yourself a diagram map with wire colors and their location BEFORE you remove the wires from your old bridge rectifier!

Just a thought! I think I seen somewhere a cross reference from Dayton Models gen to the manu was for the seller, for example your gen may cross reference to a Generac Model!
Maybe someone has or knows about the cross reference data if you happen to need additional parts!

If your stator (the electrical windings) or rotor (the rotating part) is bad, they are high priced if you can even find! About only reasonable parts to replace are the bridge rectifier and brushes! (most likely)

If you did not smell parts burning and smoke you may just have a bad bridge rectifier, but if you keep running it with a shorted bridge rectifier you will eventually let the smoke out!
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:42 PM
oganix oganix is offline
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Default Older Dayton generator help/info

I do have a multimeter how do I test the bridge rectifier?, and can I test the diodes? or how do I know if there fried?
I just checked the voltage coming out of the recepticals the 240v outlet putout 12v and the 120v outlets putout 6v AC. I don't think my multimeter measures Hertz but I can borrow one from a friend that does. Once it cools down I'll take a look inside. thankyou guys for helping

I didn't smell anything electrical burning but then again I might not smell it over the exhaust.

Is this the bridge rectifier? with my multimeter all the conductors are open on ohms setting.
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  #9  
Old 10-18-2010, 10:45 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

Can you post a picture of your Bridge rectifier?
(or do you see the 4 terminals labeled AC-AC, neg or -, and Pos or +)???? like the pic in the link of the replacement?

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...-1206&catname=

Do not disconnect the wires from your old bridge if the bridge is not labeled AC and pos and neg! (let us know what you see or post a pic of your bridge??????) and we can tell you how to test the 4 diodes and the varistor surge suppressor that is across the output terminals sealed inside the bridge black box!)


You will need to remove the bridge rectifier from the generator and disconnect all 4 wires and label the wires as to their proper connections to the 4 terminals of the bridge! (draw yourself a labeled map so as You can re-install the wires later EXACTLY as they are removed!

The 4 terminals will probably be Red, Blue, Neg brush lead, Pos brush lead!

The Red and Blue will be the AC and normally go to the AC terminals on the OLD and the NEW bridge.
The neg brush lead will go to NEG (-) and the POS brush lead will go to + on the old and new replacement stack!

You might also google search , HOW TO TEST A BRIDGE RECTIFIER WITH A OHMMETER?, so as you will be familiar with the procedure!

Later!!
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:06 AM
oganix oganix is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

ok this is the bridge rectifier, it just looks a lil differnt and isnt labled 'AC', its labled - + and E, I wrote the lettering in paint in the picture cuz the photo doesnt show it. I think it is bad but not positive yet, im gonna try a few more tests tomorrow. the replacement is $46 and hard to find, I think I'll try the one Arkie posted for $7 will that work? thanks again

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

edit
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:25 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

I repaired a board just like the one you have from a Briggs powered Generac generator for a friend of mine. I bought the bridge I used from a local Radio Shack. I think it was about $6.00. The only thing I found strange about the Generac Bridge is the corner of the body of the chip packaging that is cut-off marked the negative side of the bridge. Most Bridge rectifier packaging mark the positive terminal. If you will look someways down the Generac forum you will find a picture of the board I repaired.

Kent
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:24 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

This might be the link to the page that K D REDD is referencing!
It shows some pic's that I did not open!

You also need to check the varisitor that is across the DC output! They sometimes short ckt or break down due to HV! (if it's shorted and you replace the diodes, it will wipe them out again)
(Be cautious and do not rev the engine above 3600 rpm to prevent HV gen damage, etc) It's normally ok to idle down manually if you disconnect the loads, but don't overspeed the engine. If you get it genning proper voltages, set the frequency (hertz) eventually at 61-63 cps Cycles Per Second) (hertz or frequency) and the voltage will be approx 125-135 volts unloaded!

I might be little slow getting back to you with replies in next few days!

K.D. has you on the right track with tips!

Good Luck to Yas and keep us informed of the latest!
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

[QUOTE=Arkie;570914]This might be the link to the page that K D REDD is referencing!
It shows some pic's that I did not open!
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69773

You also need to check the varisitor that is across the DC output! They sometimes short ckt or break down due to HV! (if it's shorted and you replace the diodes, it will wipe them out again)
(Be cautious and do not rev the engine above 3600 rpm to prevent HV gen damage, etc) It's normally ok to idle down manually if you disconnect the loads, but don't overspeed the engine. If you get it genning proper voltages, set the frequency (hertz) eventually at 61-63 cps Cycles Per Second) (hertz or frequency) and the voltage will be approx 125-135 volts unloaded!

I might be little slow getting back to you with replies in next few days!

K.D. has you on the right track with his tips!

Good Luck to Ya and keep us informed!
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:32 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

Yes that is my posting.

Kent
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Older Dayton generator help/info

I found the cross reference from Dayton to Generac cross reference!

You should copy and print this info for future reference maybe!

Your 3ZC12A is a Generac Model 9321-0

Has following specs also!

Resistances

Rotor 23.7 ohms
main AC power winding.36/.36ohms
excitation (DPE)1.53ohms
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