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Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting


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  #1  
Old 11-07-2010, 10:37 PM
jerryryan64 jerryryan64 is offline
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Default Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 with 15HP Engine

Generator Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 will not start.
15hp engine with electric start.
11.8 hours of rub time.
When it stopped, it had been running for about 30 minutes generating electricity and it just stopped.
Yes, I did replace all of the gas and dumped the gas in the carburator bowl.
The engine cranks and cranks but does not start.
The spark plug does seem wet from gas.
I took the spark plug out and put the edge of it against the frame and cranked the starter. There appeared to be spark but I'm not sure how strong of spark I should have been able to see.

I have replaced:
Oil pressure switch (screws into base fitting where Oil Filter scews on.)
Spark plug
Oil filter
Oil
Air Cleaner/Filter

Now what do I check, change, replace, etc.?

Thank in advance for any guidance.

Anyone know where I can get a full Repair or Service Manual?
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2010, 01:52 AM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Jerry-

Do a web search for 0C1103A.pdf. It is a Generac service manual for several engines similar to yours. Size is 7.3 MB.

I wonder if the carburetor float valve is stuck open, which might dump raw fuel into the engine? I had that happen once. Fuel was coming out of the exhaust when I kept trying to start it!

Fred
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:19 PM
jerryryan64 jerryryan64 is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Fred,
Thank you for the quick response.
I took the carburetor apart again and inspected the float, etc.
I think that it is working Ok from what I can tell.

New discovery though. I was not real sure about the spark situation with the spark plug.
I purchased an inexpensive spark plug tester from AutoZone.
After hooking up the tester to the plug wire and cranking the engine over with the starter I saw the the spark was not very consistent and steady.
I received maybe 1 spark every 5 seconds or so.
I'm not real sure but that didn't seem like enough spark because when I did the same test on my Kohler 19hp engine I received a spark that appeared almost non-stop.

So if I'm not getting good spark to the plug and I have already replaced the oil sensor next to the oil filter are my only two remaining places to look the "Ignition Coil" and the "Low Oil Sensor Module"?

Any other thoughts of what may cause weak and almost non-existent spark?
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:12 AM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Jerry-

I have an older Sears Craftsman equivalent to the XL3500. It may be electrically similar to yours, but maybe not.

In mine, the engine on/off switch grounds the ignition coil to turn it OFF. Similarly, the oil level sensor (Oil Pressure Switch?) grounds the ignition coil to stop it from running with low oil. It is possible that a wire was pinched, and insulation eventually wore through. That might also happen with the high tension wire to the spark plug.

I don't know how the Low Oil Sensor Module works, but its LED should light if the oil level sensor line is grounded while you are trying to start it.

The ignition coil has a built-in electronic switch that takes the place of points. It could have died, but I wouldn't expect any spark at all. One possibility might be that the mounting screws that hold the coil in place have loosened and the coil moved away from the magnets. If so, use a business card as a feeler gauge to set the correct spacing away from the rotating magnets. You should be able to find more detailed instructions elsewhere on Smokstak.

Fred
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:29 PM
jerryryan64 jerryryan64 is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Fred,
I like your insights and thoughts. They are very helpful to me. Sounds like you have been down similar paths multiple times.

I have replaced the "Low Oil Sensor" that turns into the base of the oil filter. I tested the orginal and the new one and they appear to have the same readings under a "no load" and a "12 volt" load so I am hoping that the "Low Oil Sensor" is Ok at this time.

I checked the wires for any visible damage and they all looked good, too.

I checked the mounting bolts for the "Ignition Coil" and they were solid.
I did check the distance between the flywheel and the coil and they appear to be good. The manual that you direct me to helped a great deal, too.

I have removed the "Ignition Coil" and am wondering if I can figure out a way to test it now that it's off of the engine.

What do you think of my next step of testing each of the wires for the proper open/close condition and then maybe temporarily bypassing the "Low Oil Sensor" and "Low Oil Sensor Module"?
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Old 11-10-2010, 03:53 PM
Fred M. Fred M. is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Jerry-

You've tried more than I would have thought to do, but I think you would need to pressurize the Oil Pressure Sensor and check for a change in conductivity to be sure it is working.

My impression is that your original oil pressure switch might be good, and the problem is either with the ignition coil or the Low Oil Sensor Module. I'm not sure how yours is connected, but I think disconnecting the module and sensor would keep them from grounding the ignition coil primary winding. The engine run switch might also be defective. You could disconnect it, but would need some other way to stop the engine!

An unlikely, far-fetched possibility is that the rotary magnets might have become demagnetized. Unless they were exposed to a violent shock, loss of magnetism would be very gradual and they would probably not have suddenly stopped working.

Jerry-

If disconnecting the Oil Pressure Sensor and Module lets the engine run, what are the chances that the real problem is a bad engine oil pump? I wouldn't know how to test that other than to disassemble the engine and look for broken parts! Were there any metal chunks in the oil you drained?

Fred
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:06 AM
ciggs ciggs is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Check the coil with an meter and reference for it's resistances or voltage, a meter will come in handy, could be a factor of heat the engine cools off and you can start it again. or is partial gone, a part on it's way out. and also check your grounding wires . see if there are any fusable link wires in the starting system that have partial gone, you can check your sensors to see if there open closed or partial.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:42 PM
turbodiesel09 turbodiesel09 is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

I have the same unit as you do. Check your run and stop switch you might have already done so I did not see were you said you did or did not. You could also disconnect the oil sending unit and put a small pressure gauge in it to see if you have pressure. I had problems with my run stop switch shorting out and killing the engine. I hope you post what you find. Ed
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Old 11-12-2010, 05:51 PM
jerryryan64 jerryryan64 is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

I like this forum. A lot of great ideas. I am taking each of them and making sure that I try them because one of them will most likely be "spot on".

I tested the on/off switch with a multi-meter and it appears ok.

I tested my new and old oil pressure sensor unit and I think they are probably good because they test the same. Of course I personally don't have a way to test them under pressure without the engine running.

I'm not sure what values I should see from the ignition coil and the oil pressure module (it's a different part than the pressure sensor) when I test across the leads with a multi-meter.

I did see a weak spark when cranking the engine over while watching the spark plug tester. I say weak because it appeared roughly 20% as compared to the spark I saw on my Kohler engine of about the same size.

The magnets on the flywheel seem pretty strong, too.

I am going to take the ignition coil to a shop to see if they have a way of testing it.

I'll keep posting as I play and discover.

Thank you all and please keep the ideas coming in
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:27 PM
jerryryan64 jerryryan64 is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Latest update is that I have done a visual check of all the wires and they look good.

I tested the wires for shorts that I could disconnect on both ends and found no shorts.

The Napa store that I used to take things for testing went out of business.
Anyone know a way to test the ignition coil to know if it's output is within range?
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:55 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Most ignition coils on engine this size today are solid-state magneto's. You will most likely only have two wires on the coil. One is the high tension wire that goes to the spark plug. The other wire in the kill wire that one grounds to stop the engine. If you remove the kill wire and still do not have fire, replace the coil. The only test is to replace with a known good one.

Kent
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:38 PM
Zeromedic Zeromedic is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Since you are already checking everthing,
check that you haven't sheared the flywheel key.

Losing flywheel timing would cause all your symptoms.

Steve
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:36 PM
jerryryan64 jerryryan64 is offline
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Default Re: Generac EXL8000, model 030244, rev 02 - 15HP Engine not starting

Latest update on the EXL8000 portable generator not starting.

Thanks goes out to all of the people here that have been very helpful.
Each of you have had great ideas and helped me a great deal.
I hope that my posts are of use to other people in the future, too.

I replaced the Ignition Coil and tested the spark and all is GREAT!
The engine starts and runs easily using the electric start and the rope pull.

So it turns out that the Ignition Coil was the problem.

Future reference for myself:
- Ignition Coil is easily tested by disconnecting the white wire from Ignition Coil that goes the Stop/Start run switch & the Low Oil Sensor.
- Connect the Spark Plug tester to the Spark Plug wire and turn the engine over with the electric starter. The spark should be able to arc across a gap of at lease 1/4" and be VERY bright and strong.

Note:
The Spark Plug testing unit that I have is an $8 from AutoZone and works. I borrowed the $24 Briggs & Stratton tester and understand why it is recommended. The Briggs & Stratton tester is designed in such a way that my old Ignition Coil did not even show any spark and the new Ignition Coil jumped the preset gap and was bright and strong.
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