eBay Auctions
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Articles] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Chat] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] - [Tools]

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® General Discussion > eBayŠ Auction Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

eBayŠ Auction Discussion All eBay™ discussion; engines, frauds, fancies, weird stuff and more.

eBayŠ Auction Discussion

Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...


This is a very nice very unusual example of the Minnie traction engine. It is executed in 2" scale...

this thread has 17 replies and has been viewed 4672 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-19-2011, 05:47 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

This is a very nice very unusual example of the Minnie traction engine. It is executed in 2" scale which is twice the normal 1" scale for the Minnie. This very same piece was in a phony auction over 3 years ago.

Here is a link to it.
If you have any interest, BE CAREFUL.

I believe this is an engine that was used in a fraudulent auction several years ago.

The pictures may even be the same ones used then.
The real one was sold once a soon after the very same pictures and description appeared in a new auction from a different seller. There are not likely 2 of these identical.

Finally, notice the seller is an account that has had ZERO activity since 2006 so the account has likely been hijacked..

I have asked the seller to describe the steam guage in detail and perhaps post a picture of the underside--- no response.

It may not be meaningful as the pictures could be old but there is no where in Pennsylvania that looks like that outdoors at this time of year.

Also a bit odd not offering local pickup for a heavy item.

How about the description using the words "with the mains transformer". No one in the USA uses the word "mains" in this context.

Here is from my email archives March 2008.....
Item Title: "Minnie" Live traction Steam Engine.
Item Number: 250223775448

Notice this 3 year old fraudulent auction has the same exact odd word order in the title.



http://ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120699612446

I have reported it to ebay but they are slow to move. 3 years ago when I reported it being sold by another hijacked account, they let it go the whole 7 days and left the poor winner hanging out to dry. I think I recall back then you could still contact other members as you knew who they were and I did let him know..


Gil
Attached Thumbnails
SteamModel12.JPG  
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Gil Garceau:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:02 PM
OTTO-Sawyer's Avatar
OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scioto Mills, Illinois USA
Posts: 6,700
Thanks: 10,497
Thanked 5,317 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Does your 'e-mail archive record' show if this was the same seller or a different user ID?

It's good that you warned us of the "Possible" fraudulant listing, but it could also be a legitimate one with typing errors. Spell check only checks for misspelled words, not words used out of context. He may have been saying the lights are powered by a trains transformer (even though there isn't one pictured), and missed the "r' and spell check could have changed 'tains' to "mains"

I noticed a typo in your first paragraph too with "This very same piuece", so it is possible. I do it myself quite often

The lack of feedback since 2006 doesn't always mean anything either. I've sold items to people that have been on eBay for 7 years with only a single feedback, and a set of dishes to a couple that just registered the day before they bid on mine and already had over 350 winning bids that made me wonder about them, but everything worked out OK.

I also noticed that this seller changed his user ID in June of 2008 even though they hadn't bought or sold anything since 06, but again that isn't that unusual.

Does anyone in the PA area recognise this engine from any shows it may have been at ? It looks be be well built.

---------- Post added at 01:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

Possible the buyer from the first auction decided to resell it too.

I forgot to include that in regaurds to the fact that their likely aren't two of these identical engines.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:08 PM
Beth V's Avatar
Beth V Beth V is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SE Michigan USA
Posts: 10,989
Thanks: 6,161
Thanked 9,568 Times in 3,048 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Gil,

I don't have any clue as to whether or not it is a fraud, but the spelling leads me to believe that it originator is from either England or Canada. If you read the TractionTalk Forum, you'll see the verbiage and that they refer to models as a "Minnie." They also use "draught" and "colour." I don't know what a "mains transformer" is, but I'm guessing it stands in for the dyno.

It would be beneficial if we know more about the boiler stamping.

I started a thread on TractionTalk to see if anyone has information.

Let us know.

Beth
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-20-2011, 06:47 PM
Contaucreek's Avatar
Contaucreek Contaucreek is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Proudly Canadian
Posts: 1,317
Thanks: 1,287
Thanked 1,245 Times in 488 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Usually the Brits refer to "Mains" as supplied electric power. We don't normally make that reference with an "s" on the end here in Canada eh'.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-20-2011, 07:08 PM
Beth V's Avatar
Beth V Beth V is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SE Michigan USA
Posts: 10,989
Thanks: 6,161
Thanked 9,568 Times in 3,048 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

A response to my thread said that the "mains transformer" is simply a converter for your wall plug to the engine for its lights. He also noted that it did not look like a model from castings...didn't like the looks of the gearing either..

Beth
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:27 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

The original piece which did sell over 3 years ago was a listing from the UK and the word mains refers to your standard wall socket or plug. The first bogus listing, right after the original 3 years ago had the seller malien, another hijacked ebay account which at that time claimed the item was in Florida, if my memory is correct. This seller claims the item is in Clearfield PA but there is no one by his name (Justice Oswaldo) in Clearfield or anywhere else in PA. His phone number is a land line in Coatsville PA, a long way from Clearfield and several miles west of West Chester (near Philly).

I believe it is a one off that someone fabricated by doubling up everything on the original Minnie plans which were in 1" scale. That might explain the way too wide teeth in the gearing. It appears the builder took the drawings a bit too literally when doubling the size of everything. Anyway I have been around this stuff long enough to know that there are not 2 of those painted, decorated, and photographed identical. I have requested info from the seller and can not even get a response. I will try the phone number again during business hours to see if anyone will answer it.

Ebay, as usual has chosen to let the auction run. They have a nasty habit of waiting until someone gets screwed and then they get around to cancelling the auction. They did that to me once.... cancelled an auction about 15 minutes AFTER I paid for the item.

Gil
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gil Garceau:
  #7  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:02 PM
OTTO-Sawyer's Avatar
OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scioto Mills, Illinois USA
Posts: 6,700
Thanks: 10,497
Thanked 5,317 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Keep us posted on what you find out, and if you hear anything back from the 'seller'.

I too doubt that would be more than one engine like that, just wondered if maybe the same one was changing hands for the third time (or maybe second time if it got pulled on his first try to resell it).

Some people buy things to keep, and some buy to resell hoping to make a couple bucks. I've done both, but I never copy someone elses listing or use other people pictures. If you recognise everything in it from the previous listing, it could very well be a scam just like that one steam engine on craigs list that got posted on here a few months back using pictures that had previously been posted elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-20-2011, 10:17 PM
twslandlord's Avatar
twslandlord twslandlord is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
Posts: 172
Thanks: 7
Thanked 125 Times in 65 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

In my experience, ebay won't take action in the case of fraudulent listings or stolen items. Be careful.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:23 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

I have request information from the seller 3 times now and not a single response.

Gil
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:34 PM
Beth V's Avatar
Beth V Beth V is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: SE Michigan USA
Posts: 10,989
Thanks: 6,161
Thanked 9,568 Times in 3,048 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Excellent reason not to bid.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Just leave it to ebay. ..... 4 days later and they choose to let the auction run to the finish.

Bidding now up to $2700.

Gil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-22-2011, 03:15 PM
OTTO-Sawyer's Avatar
OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scioto Mills, Illinois USA
Posts: 6,700
Thanks: 10,497
Thanked 5,317 Times in 2,633 Posts
Question Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Garceau View Post
... This seller claims the item is in Clearfield PA but there is no one by his name (Justice Oswaldo) in Clearfield or anywhere else in PA. His phone number is a land line in Coatsville PA, a long way from Clearfield and several miles west of West Chester (near Philly).
... I will try the phone number again during business hours to see if anyone will answer it.

Gil
I must be missing something here....

I went back and looked at the listing again and don't see an actual name, just the user ID of justicechans and No phone number or city... Just PA, United States.

Did he originally have more information in the listing that isn't there any more, or did I fail to find the right links to get that additional information ?

I thought I was pretty savvy on eBay, but I'm not finding any of that....

I just sent him a question asking what it uses for fuel, if it's large enough to burn wood or coal, or if it runs on propane or the solid fuel tablets like the Mamod & other models use ? I'll let you know if I get a responce.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-22-2011, 04:47 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTTO-Sawyer View Post
I must be missing something here....

I went back and looked at the listing again and don't see an actual name, just the user ID of justicechans and No phone number or city... Just PA, United States.

Did he originally have more information in the listing that isn't there any more, or did I fail to find the right links to get that additional information ?

I thought I was pretty savvy on eBay, but I'm not finding any of that....

I just sent him a question asking what it uses for fuel, if it's large enough to burn wood or coal, or if it runs on propane or the solid fuel tablets like the Mamod & other models use ? I'll let you know if I get a responce.
I placed a bid, then requested contact info, then canceled my bid.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-22-2011, 08:14 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Winning bid: US $5,126.00 [ 34 bids ]
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-13-2011, 04:57 AM
athertonisland athertonisland is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maui Hawaii
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

hello
You were right. The whole deal was a scam. His name is Justice Oswaldo. I gave all the info to eBay. I read your warning after I had paid. Ebay refunded all my money right away. We are lucky to have people looking out for crooks like this guy. Good job.

Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to athertonisland:
  #16  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,311
Thanks: 261
Thanked 2,074 Times in 593 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

By the way, the sad thing about this scam is that I let Ebay know about right at the beginning of the auction and nearly every day during the auction.... yet they let it run anyway.

This is not a company that wants to help you.

Gil
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-09-2011, 09:47 PM
OTTO-Sawyer's Avatar
OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scioto Mills, Illinois USA
Posts: 6,700
Thanks: 10,497
Thanked 5,317 Times in 2,633 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Garceau View Post
...This is not a company that wants to help you.

Gil
Other than the fact that they DID Refund his money

I just wish people would have contacted eBay several years ago when I got screwed out of $1200.00 for a 4hp Stover T with all original paint, pin striping, & decals, setting in a basement in a small town near Boston Mass.

With no-one else reporting anything suspicious about it, eBay backed the seller on the local pickup only part of it without contacting me at all to let them know that the seller refused to give me an address on where it located after I clicked the "Pay Now" button.

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and hope all transactions go smoothly, and apparently eBay does too, so they let them run and see how they play out in the end.

Although I have had a few of my listings pulled for antique railroad tools because they supposedly recieve complaints from several railroads that the monkey wrench or other common tool with RR markings on it might be used to tamper with railroad equipment. Can't win that arguement with them, no matter how to explain to them what a monkey wrench is or that any generic adjustable wrench will do the exact same job without the RR markings on them. Go Figure.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-09-2011, 10:16 PM
Danno Danno is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shellbrook, Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 148
Thanks: 1,165
Thanked 231 Times in 66 Posts
Default Re: Warning: Possible Fraudulent auction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by athertonisland View Post
hello
You were right. The whole deal was a scam. His name is Justice Oswaldo. I gave all the info to eBay. I read your warning after I had paid. Ebay refunded all my money right away. We are lucky to have people looking out for crooks like this guy. Good job.
that name is a well known name in the scam world,
I like to bait them, as well as others check out http://www.thescambaiter.com/
I have seen the name justice a few times online
lucky you got a refund
cheers
Danno
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
I wish to report fraudulent activity Sloroll Antique Tractors - Old Iron Lugs, Cleats and Tracks 2 01-24-2010 01:24 PM
Scam Warning For all of us! Greg Downard Antique Gas Engine Discussion 16 12-20-2006 08:58 PM
Fraudulent Second Chance Offers Harry eBayŠ Auction Discussion 1 03-22-2005 09:28 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:07 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark
A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2014 by Harry Matthews
P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277