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Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?


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  #1  
Old 04-24-2011, 06:33 PM
kd5byb kd5byb is offline
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Photo Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

Evening all,

Spent a little bit of this afternoon making gaskets for a Wisconsin BKN engine.

A special challenge was the Zenith type 89 carb, as the the float bowl is no where near round - it almost looks like a letter C.

I came up with a neat method that's pretty easy, even for me. I took the carb bottom, placed it flat on my scanner, and scanned in an image. The mating surface looks white on a black background and was easily reversed in irfanview (a photo editing program) to be black on a white background:



I printed it out at a 1:1 scale, pasted it to the gasket materials with a glue stick that is water soluble, and cut out the gasket using scissors, some hole punches for the holes, and a Olfa knife (like an x-acto) for the parts where scissors were impossible.

For gasket material, I had three choices all bought at the local Advance Auto:

Fel-Pro rubberized cork

Fel-Pro rubber-fiber

Fel-Pro Karropak

I chose the rubberized cork because it seemed like it would be the easiest to work with. Now I'm wondering if maybe I should have used the rubber-fiber or the Karropak?

So my question is - which of these gasket materials would you use and where? The rubberized cork and the rubber-fiber both state they are for oil and gasoline, while the Karropak is silent on what it is for...

thanks much!
-ben
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:12 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

I'm not familiar with any of the three gasket materials listed, but think I would try to obtain a small sample of each. Get three small jars and fill about 3/4 full with ethanol gas, then place each gasket sample in the jar with the ethanol gas. Leave sit for several weeks to a month and see if there is any change in the gasket material over time. I suspect you will see the rubberized cork swell and/or turn brittle but could be wrong. Anyway, I would avoid using any gasket material effected by the ethanol unless you can buy ethanol free gas in your area.

By the way, excellent idea for your gasket pattern.

Bill

Last edited by Bill Sherlock; 04-24-2011 at 07:14 PM. Reason: additional comment
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:15 PM
hello113 hello113 is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

what a idea thanks !
mike
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:29 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

I think that any gasket material with rubber or neoprene will be attacked by the gas. You want a fibrous material gasket, made of compressed cellulose material. This is commonly sold in small rolls at a good auto supply, in various thicknesses. I would use a material of at least .020" in thickness for the bowl gasket.
Andrew
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:14 AM
Zira Zira is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

Like the others, I am not familar with the specific materials from advance, but that bowl gasket is pretty thin - thinner than a manila folder. I would use a similar thickness, paper-type material. Great idea on the scanner, I will try that.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:08 AM
kd5byb kd5byb is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

Good morning all,

I put a sample of each of the three types into a small jar of gasoline this morning. I also have three reference samples so I can compare them. The gas I have at the moment is ethanol free, so if they do survive regular I'll get some ethanol (or maybe some E85 to be really mean) and see what happens. I probably won't get to look at them until the weekend.

Interestingly, the original gasket on the two Wisconsin-application Zeniths I have (part 11193) was thicker than a manila folder - but not by much - but they may have been replaced at some time. Neither carb had much wear, but the one had sat outside for some time and I had to replace the throttle shaft with new as the old one was nearly rotted away.

The rebuild kit I got from MacDonald ignition had a fairly thick bowl gasket - maybe 1/32"?

The cork/rubber material is fairly thick - 1/32". Both the rubber/fiber and the Karropak (which seems to me to be just a fiber material) are both 1/64". If need be, I'll replace the rubber/cork gasket I made with a thinner rubber/fiber or Karropak gasket.

A few weeks ago, I needed a magneto gasket and didn't have any gasket material. I made one out of a thin piece of cardboard and coated it with regular shellac before I installed it. It worked great until I had to change the magneto a re-used it for a second time. It now leaks. Maybe something as simple as cardboard and paper plates can be used as gasket material with good success?

thanks much!
-ben

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by kd5byb View Post
I printed it out at a 1:1 scale, pasted it to the gasket materials with a glue stick that is water soluble, and cut out the gasket using scissors, some hole punches for the holes, and a Olfa knife (like an x-acto) for the parts where scissors were impossible.
Morning all,

I forgot the most important step. The reason for using a water-soluble glue stick is to remove the paper template by holding it under hot running water. Once the glue gets moistened again the paper peels off with just the force of the water from the tap.

thanks much,
ben
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:26 AM
Oberon67 Oberon67 is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

The classic card stock to use for gasket material comes from the side of a cereal box.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:39 PM
kd5byb kd5byb is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberon67 View Post
The classic card stock to use for gasket material comes from the side of a cereal box.
Question - do you coat it with anything? Gasket shellac?

I want to say that my thin cardboard I used for the mag gasket was from a cereal box, but I did coat it with regular hardware-store shellac.

thanks much,
ben
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:47 PM
Bill Wehrman Bill Wehrman is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

I got in a jam at a show, lost the headgasket all of a sudden and was blowing coolant out the exhaust on a 7-1/2 Galloway. Did not bring gasket material but a buddy went up into the flea market and bought a Perry Como album for a dollar and we used the cover for a headgasket. Stayed in there for a couple years, didn't fail but got changed out eventually during a valve guide repair.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:44 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

I've never used shellac as a sealer on a gasket in case I need to remove it later. Also avoid silicone for the same reason. I've used gasket goo on some applications but for something like carburetor gaskets just spread some engine oil on both sides with my fingers.

Bill
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Old 04-25-2011, 03:20 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

For the carb, cerial box material should work fine! As stated by others, NO shellac or silicone. just a thin coat of engine oil should be fine.
Andrew
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Old 04-26-2011, 08:55 AM
kd5byb kd5byb is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

Good morning all,

Just an update on the materials I've placed to soak in gasoline:

* cork/rubber - it has clearly absorbed the gasoline and has swelled larger. Believe that this makes it unsuitable for carb gaskets.

As in interesting aside, I had a Briggs flo-jet carb that kept flooding. Problem was caused by the gasket swelling and preventing the float from coming up all the way and turning off the gas supply!

* rubber/fiber - so far, no swelling or obvious problems.

* Karropak fiber - as above - no swelling or obvious problems.

Last night I made a template for a Briggs small flo-jet carb and made a gasket out of the Karropak material. Mostly as a test, but if I get a chance I will install it into a carb this weekend.

thanks much,
ben
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:39 PM
GaryH GaryH is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

Here is what NAPA has available. You can get about any length.I bet a high percentage of thier counter men don't know this is available. Mine didn't or more likely did not want to fool with it ... and they are sharp. I highly recommend the Karropak. The other types are for reference and probably do not work good.



NAPA = 11/10

Fel-pro ... Karropak®, Pliable, Chemically Treated Fibrous Sheet.
Product Application : Material for Use in Sealing Oil, Coolant, & Gasoline.


1/64" = .015" --- 12" x 36" FPG 3045 = 3.00
18" x 36" FPG 3022 = 6.00
36" x 36" FPG 3011 = 7.00

1/32" = .031" --- 12" x 36" FPG 3046 = 6.00
18" x 36" FPG 3023 = 8.29
18" x 10 yds FPG 3098 = 65.00


1/16" = .062" --- 18" x 36" FPG 3025 = 16.00
12" x 36" FPG 3047 = 12.00


Fel-pro ... Anti-Stick Rubber Fiber
Product Application : Material for Use in Sealing Oil, Coolant, & Gasoline.


1/16" = .062" --- 25" x 25" FPG 31493 = 49.00

Fel-pro ... Cork Rubber
Product Application : Material for Use in Sealing Oil, Coolant, & Gasoline.

1/16" = .062" --- 18" x 36" FPG 3005 = 12.49
10" x 26" FPG 3018 = 6.00


Pro-Rami 301 High Temp. Fiber Facing w/Perforated Steel Core.
Product Application : Recommended Use: Exhaust Manifold & Exhaust Pipe Flange.

3/64" = .047 --- 12" x 28" FPG 3009 = 9.00

1/16" = .062" --- 12" x 28" FPG 2499 = 12.00


Gasket Material Type : Synthaseal Nonasbestos
Product Application : Designed To Seal Rough Surfaces
NAPA small engine .. Excellent Oil Resistance; Material Can Withstand 350 Deg F

? " = ? " 12" x 24" SME180116 = 16.00
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:31 PM
kd5byb kd5byb is offline
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Default Re: Gasket Making and Materials - what to use where?

GaryH - wow - thanks for the listing! That will come in very handy.

Many moons ago I walked into one of the older NAPA's here in town looking for gasket material. The counter guy actually knew what I was looking for, and I walked out with a roll of Victor-Reinz Vict-o-pak gasket material. It is pretty much gone now, but it was a 1/16" thick, fairly non-compressible material. It was a little hard to work with as it was thick and not very flexible. But, it worked well!

Sadly, that NAPA is now gone.

thanks much,
ben
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