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Welding Shop

Welding cast iron, for what it's worth


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  #1  
Old 05-11-2003, 07:47 PM
Al Steppich
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Default Welding cast iron, for what it's worth

Hi all, A lot has been said on this site about welding cast iron. I'll admit right off that I have no experience doing this. However, last week in the shop where I work, a cast iron part broke in an automatic cut off machine. Needing to keep it going and avoiding down time, I took the part, 'V' grooved the two broken sections, and MIG welded them together. Ground and filed off the excess, and got the machine running again. A week later, it's still holding up! Mind you, I wasn't a bit fussy about doing all this, time was of the essence. Just had mild steel wire in the MIG welder, using 75%-25% argon-CO2 gas. So, for what it's worth, it worked for me. Regards, Al
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2003, 09:38 PM
Marty
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

I have had several cast iron parts break a second time at the point that I had brazed the repair correctly. Out of need, I welded them with .023 dia. mild steel wire and 100% Co2 gas. Under the same conditions, the parts have not rebroke and I am quite pleased with even the looks of the mig weld on the cast. So with that I have no doubt that your mig weld repairs are holding up fine.
  #3  
Old 05-11-2003, 10:01 PM
dave in PA
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

How would mig welding a flywheel hub work ?
  #4  
Old 05-11-2003, 10:20 PM
Marty
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

Myself I would do it based on the experiences I have had welding cast with my mig.
  #5  
Old 05-11-2003, 10:55 PM
ROD JEFFERS
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

HI ALL I AM A WELDER BY TRADE AND THE BEST THING I KNOW OF TO WELD CAST IRON IS A STICK ROD CALLED CERTAINUEM MY SPELLING MAY NOT BE CORRECT IT IS A VERY GOOD ROD AND YOU DONT HAVE TO BE A PRO TO USE IT TRY IT YOU WILL LIKE IT GOOD LUCK
  #6  
Old 05-12-2003, 12:02 AM
John R
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

Rod, is that the #889. If so I too have had very good results using it.
  #7  
Old 05-12-2003, 08:19 AM
Ralph Leonard
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

This looks like a place I should steer clear of but yall know by now I can't do that.

While digging thru reference books about iron for a mag charger I learned that the recipe for cast iron is as varried as Sunday dinner. This helped me understand why some of my welds have been good and failed.

As you said, for what its worth, Ralph in NC
  #8  
Old 05-12-2003, 09:20 AM
David M. Lyon
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

I have been on a soap box for years telling about welding cast iron with a MIG welder...I found out by welding exhaust manifolds on automobiles...It is not a very strong weld and I don't know how much I would trust it on a flywheel, But as far as welding up a crack in the water hopper or welding a bracket back on, It seems to work just fine..Also It is a very HARD weld...You can't machine it..It'll brake your tools! all you can do is grind it back to size or shape with a disc....Just my observations!

David M.
  #9  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:03 AM
Allen
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

The reason Mig (GMAW) works fairly well, some of the time, is because you have a lower heat input, therefore there is less thermal shock in the heat affected zone than with conventional arc welding. OTOH running a cooler weld (essentially a localized re-casting) means less penetration, and a weaker joint.

If you tried to run it hot - into transition, or metal spray, you'd find that the end result would be subject to the same problems as a conventionally welded repair.
  #10  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:56 AM
Marty
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

Ralph, I was so glad to read your post. Maybe it has been said before ( but don't recall reading it ) there have been so many threads concerning the methods of welding cast for a very simple reason... your very wise statement of... "the recipe for cast is as varied as Sunday dinner" and oh how true. It's the same thing as so many threads concerning the removal of a stuck piston, for every stuck piston there is, there is a "best" method of "unsticking" THAT PARTICULAR piston. For nearly every situation, there is a different set of circumstances so generally a different method of a "fix" applies. This Site is excellent since we all get to post our OPINIONS and experiences. Thx Harry for all your work !
  #11  
Old 05-12-2003, 03:38 PM
Allen
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

I think the reason is because we call what is in essence an entire group or family of metals "cast iron". Like the generic term "steel", the name simply doesn't convey much useful infomation beyond an average carbon content.

Metallurgy has advanced enough that we can manupulate "cast iron" to have all sorts of properties, some that even defy what the average fellow thinks he KNOWS about the material. OTOH there are STILL quite a few places that simply make a mulligan stew type cast iron by throwing just about anything into the pot, then don't control their cooling rates either, so the physical and structural properties end up differing from batch to batch.
  #12  
Old 05-12-2003, 09:52 PM
Kevin Beitz
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

I do alot of cast welding... I use Ni-cad rods... Or cold weld rods... Its made of allmost pure nickle... Not cheap, but really does the job...

I have welded flywheels, but I would never do it for someone else... I want to keep my farm...
  #13  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:00 PM
ROD JEFFERS
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

HI ITS ME AGAIN I WENT OUT TO THE SHOP AND GOT A STICK OF THAT CERTANIUM ROD HERE IS WHAT IT SAID 889SP P/N12003 AD/ DC ALL POSITION ROD 1/8 90--125 AMPS FOR CAST IRON IT HAS A PHONE NUMBER BUT I CANT MAKE IT OUT VERY CLEAR CANADA 1- 800-663-2800 PS I AGREE WITH THE PERSON THAT SAID HE DOESNT WELD UP FLYWHEELS CAST IRON WITH A LOT OF RPM G FORCE IS VERY SCARRY
  #14  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:31 AM
Don C. Wiley
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

Hi guys/gals;

The "smooth" rod I use on cast works really well. I think most of the old cast before WW II is a much better cast than some of the 40's, 50's and 60's.

The guy that sells me the rods won't tell me the company name or the numbers for the rod. There isn't any thing printed on the flux and I only buy them about a pound at a time, so there isn't a box with writing on it. I guess he want's me to just buy them from him. I think I pay about $1.50 each for them and they are well worth it.

The smooth rod welds this old cast like mild steel. I don't know what it's made out of but they are a "whole bunch" better than any nickel rods I have every used. I bought the most expensive nickel rods I could find and the cheapy ones and they don't hold a candle to the smooth rod. The weld is soft enough to file as well.

"That's my story and I'm stickin' to it."

"DELCO DON" Southern Illinois
  #15  
Old 05-13-2003, 09:31 AM
Brian Triebner
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

I aggree with Don on ni-rod, too hard,can't machine and doesn't blend with the cast appearance wise. I use Palco 808 & 827 cast iron alloy machinable. Its made in Ohio. There is a phone number on the rod but I'm not sure I should post it so if any smokstakr's want it just email me. Brian
  #16  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:32 PM
Allen
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

If it works well, then it couldn't hurt to suggest to the fellow that spending the small fee to advertise his product here might be in his interest.
  #17  
Old 05-13-2003, 12:54 PM
Marty
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

Not if competition steps in.
  #18  
Old 05-13-2003, 01:46 PM
Allen
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Default Re: welding cast iron, for what it's worth

If you DON'T advertise someplace where guys are in need of your services, you deserve all the traffic you don't get. If you advertise someplace, and the people there send business to someone else, you probably have a good reason to kick a bit. If you and that other guy else BOTH advertise, then the consumers win big by having a choice, and each of you deserve your slice of the pie.

This is one of the few hobbies that seems to hold (and sometimes desperately clings to) the strange notion that people shouldn't expect to make a reasonable monetary reward for goods and services that they have provided. Personally, I don't mind all that much paying a couple dollars more, or waiting a few days longer if necessary, when I'm doing business with a firm that actively supports the shows and other activities that I enjoy. I guess maybe I'm just weird
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