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The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?


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  #1  
Old 06-12-2011, 05:54 PM
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Default The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I just had my first experience with the NEW Briggs automatic choke system. The engine is in the default choke position when cold, an air vane, opens the choke when the engine starts. It has a thermostatically controlled arm (activated by muffler heat), that holds the air vain in the open position once it reaches operating temperature.

This system works GREAT when the engine is cold, BUT try to start the engine 5 minutes after you have turned it off and it will not start because the thermostatically controlled arm has cooled down and closed the choke, but the engine is still warm enough that it doesn't need to be choked. Hence, a flooded engine.

Has anyone had a similar experience ? Is there a fix ?
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:37 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I have not seen this system. What is the engine's Model, Type, and Code numbers?

Kent
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:10 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Sounds a lot like the Briggs & Stratton engine on an early 1970's lawnmower that my wife's folks had. Started fine when cold but if you killed the engine in tall grass, you could pull the rope until your arm came out of it's socket and it wouldn't start. Go in the house for a coffee and come out 20 minutes later, it would start, but don't kill the engine while running or it was the same performance all over.

Father-in-law had the mower to several different small engine repair shops but no one was able to come up with a solution to the problem. Problem was solved when they sold the mower in their farm auction when they retired from farming!

Bill
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

It's a new choke system that has been out for a few years.

This particular engine is 126T05 4678 B3 08120556

PS.. If you are looking for the choke related parts in the IPL, they are located with the muffler section...
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:15 PM
wheelhorseman wheelhorseman is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Worked on one of these awhile back and was not impressed at all. Probably was a good idea on paper but not in the real world.

Another Briggs flop to me was the mower engines used on some Troy Bilt push mowers that started by releasing the pre wound recoil when you tripped a lever. GREAT IDEA if the mower started on the first try. If not you had to pull the rope and retighten the spring and try again. After doing that a few times your tounge would be draggin the floor.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

One would think with todays technology, if anybody, Briggs could perfect an automatic choke system. They typically build a decent product. Maybe it's all about saving money, cutting costs, etc..
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:11 AM
LiverpoolDave LiverpoolDave is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I haven't come across this model but sounds like a pain in the Aster ix, definitely coming on prematurely & too much, is there any way you can reduce the choke degree-level by adjustment? altering a springs tension or moving a factory pre-set screw? there is usually some scope as in past Cars Carburettors, I have had to reduce Choke on a few to stop them flooding on Cold starts.
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:33 AM
manioso manioso is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I haven't personally encountered one of these, but it's a late model Quantum option.

Personally, I'd get rid of the thermostatic choke and install a 692298 air cleaner with a primer bulb. I've done that on other Quantums with the integrate throttle-choke system. The throttle wire and choke system does not advance the governor enough, without starting to close the choke. By removing the choke, and using a primer, I can get the engine speed up to 3450 or 3500rpm where I want it.
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:36 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

The choke set up doesn't have anything to do with costs - it is because of governmental inteferance! EPA Is requiring reduced emmissions, therefore the choke, and lean burn non adjustable carbs. The primer bulb set up is the best answer - extra gas when you need it - hot starts, just one pull-no choke. GM autos had the same problem with their electric choke pots - turn on the key, and the power to the coil also heated the choke pot. If the engine was cold, very difficult to start. If the coil in the pot went bad, the choke wouldn't open, flooding the engine when it got hot. I always favored a manual choke!

Andrew
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:37 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Push mower engine ARE NOT to run in the 3500 to 3600 RPM range BECAUSE the Blade Tip Speed will exceed the I think 22,000 Feet per Minute set by the CPSC.. This is why your are seeing the 6 HP engine on push mowers that at one time use 3.5's because you need the much bigger engine to make 3.5 HP at the reduces RPM.

Kent
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:33 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

It's fine to blame the government for this particular choke system, but speaking as someone who makes his living working on this stuff, take it from me, the biggest reason for this system concerns the end-user, and his/her unwillingness, to read, or comprehend, the manual that came with the mower.

Most of society has either never known, or worse yet, forgotten, how things worked before fuel injection and an onboard computer system came on the scene. Get in the car, turn the key, and drive away. No pulling a choke cable, depressing the accelerator pedal to set the choke, or feathering the pedal on a cold morning until the engine warms up.

They want their lawnmowers the same way. With no interaction needed on the operator's part, just pull the rope and hit the grass. They don't even know the engine has a primer bulb, let alone how to use it. Then, there are those who actually read the manual, and think that if depressing the bulb 3 times is good, then 13 times must be better. And, they apply that technique every time they start er' up - no matter if the engine is hot, cold, or been turned on it's side until excess fuel ran out the muffler. It's the same every time.

Briggs is trying to find a "no thinking required" solution for these people. It's not just the EPA.

Don't get me wrong, I work on EFI equipped small engines every week, and am certified to do so. I don't mind them one bit. But I personally feel that this technology, particularly in automotive applications, may of helped contribute to the decline of mechanical aptitude in a large portion of our society.
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:34 PM
Joe K Joe K is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Meanwhile, can someone recommend a parts blow out that will show the primer parts for this engine. We're now on our THIRD mower from Sears - the previous two brought back because of starting issues discovered during the warranty period. Sears elected to give us a new mower each time rather than correct the problem -which they blamed on alcohol in the gas (they recommended Stabil be used to correct the issue and why aren't we using it - the manufacturer's recommendation did not include a regular diet of Stabil - that's why.)

I have since traced the issue down to the faulty action of the thermal actuated auto-choke. But seek the parts to bypass. (It's not like the EPA is here to check.)

Joe K
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Old 08-18-2013, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I have recently worked on one of these Briggs powered mowers. I believe it also is a '08 and is OHV and has the air vane operated choke. I did not see any thermal mechanism from the muffler on it. If it were me, I would disconnect & remove that part and just let the air vane choke take care of it. This one starts easily now under any condition - Hot or cold.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:28 PM
Joe K Joe K is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I have done a little investigating based on description in Ebay of a push prime mower of this Briggs & Stratton family which the owner is parting out.

His Briggs Motor is 124T02-1227-B1 and his obviously the push primer version. Parts blow outs for this motor show four different carburation systems: one primer bulb, one manual choke, and two auto-choke with a date/number cutoff for each.

This can be seen at http://www.jackssmallengines.com/Jac...on/55230/54903 and other diagrams on his site.

It is possible to convert from one system to another IF one can buy the appropriate parts, or secure them used as on Ebay (or from the dump!) Currently one supplier shows only the auto-choke versions available as carburetors - I might opine that as earlier stocks of parts are sold out, they're not being replaced or maintained by B&S.

Still, using the parts diagrams as guide, it seems like a conversion should be possible.

There are also some good guides on Youtube about the thermal bimetal sensor and it's relationship to the air vane (they should encircle or lock together) which may help an incorrect choking situation. (I'm going to check this first!)

I've learned a lot on a Sunday Afternoon. Say NO to machinery that cannot be repaired. Maybe I can save myself the money I might spend to buy a Honda Mower which I was already planning to replace the POS Sears Craftsman.

Although as some have said, American culture wants left click operation of all their machinery now.

And this a little sad. But WOT A TOOL THIS INTERNET for the motivated repairer.

Best,
Joe K
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkplug View Post
...."the biggest reason for this system concerns the end-user, and his/her unwillingness, to read, or comprehend, the manual that came with the mower.

They want their lawnmowers the same way. With no interaction needed on the operator's part, just pull the rope and hit the grass.

Briggs is trying to find a "no thinking required" solution for these people. It's not just the EPA"

sprkplug, You hit the nail on the head, I agree 100%.. could not have said it better
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

I have a situation with the same type of engine and choke system. I have tried everything that would normally be the problem. This mower will not even start, instead it will only chug chug twice and then die. I have changed timing, changed carburetor, cleaned the old carburetor three times, but still the same old thing. Why does it sound as though it has a compression leak. Is this normal for thei engine? I am going to try the concept of changing the air cleaner to the one with a primer.

---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 PM ----------

I truly concur with the statement that the EPA is trying to make things more complicated but not looking at the fact whether it really works or not.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

How did you change the timing?
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:12 PM
makoman1860 makoman1860 is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

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Originally Posted by sprkplug View Post
How did you change the timing?
Offset key or no key at all. The "ready-start" thermal choke system can work really well, however it is hard to calibrate it for all conditions and especially all fuel types. You can adjust the amount of enrichment by either the physical position that the choke closes to, or by the size of the bypass hole in the choke plate. I think what you will find is that they are set up on the rich side to be able to run on 10% ethanol fuel in colder climates. opening up the bypass hole in the choke plate can make a world of difference. I first saw this system at a regional SAE meeting at briggs a while ago, at the time it was stated that the system was developed for emissions reasons.
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Thanks Mako, but I'm familiar with offset keys from my kart days. My question wasn't intended as a "How do you change the timing?", as much as a more direct "How did YOU change the timing?"

On a stock mower/engine there is no need to alter the timing....which is why Briggs doesn't offer offset keys. The factory key/setting is adequate for the purposes Briggs intended the engine for.
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:33 PM
Motormowers Motormowers is offline
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Default Re: The NEW Briggs Auto Choke System - Problems, HELP ?

Ive seen those thermostats go bad more times than I can tell you. I would just change it thats the problem. They're prob made in China for Briggs. They are made that they either work or they dont there is no calibrating them.
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