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Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines, Steam Boats

Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:


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  #1  
Old 10-16-2011, 09:09 AM
WisconsinSteam5443 WisconsinSteam5443 is offline
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Well, it's finally happened. My fascination/slight obsession with steam has driven me to the breaking point....

I've decided to build a steamboat!

The Justi Elizabeth is being constructed on a 25 ft pontoon deck, and will have 2 levels. The lower boiler deck will house the boiler, boarding plank, and engine room. The upper observation deck will be mostly open, with only the wheel house and smoke stacks taking of space, leaving plenty of room for passengers to roam. She's being modeled from a turn of the century style Mississippi paddle steamer, with signature split smoke stacks and Victorian decor. Construction on her paddle wheel has already begun, as well as various other parts.

I'll post pictures as soon as I can, so keep checking up on the thread!

If you have any possible leads on engines, please post them here. She's still powerless! I'm looking for a reasonably large reversable steam engine that can be either vertical or horizontal. I'm trying to keep a tight budget, so my max price would be $800. The engine doesnt have to be beautiful, just in running condition and at a reasonable size. you can email me at dmc5443@hotmail.com, or call 262-623-8352.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

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Originally Posted by WisconsinSteam5443 View Post
I'm looking for a reasonably large reversable steam engine that can be either vertical or horizontal. I'm trying to keep a tight budget, so my max price would be $800.
Not to rain on your parade, but just about any steam engine of any size in good condition will command prices of over $1,000.00, even in this economy. When you add a reverse to one, the price generally doubles, as the demand far exceeds the supply. Ebay is not the place to look with your budget.

Hopefully, by putting the word out in your area, you might find one in private hands that could be bought at a reasonable price.

David
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Old 10-16-2011, 03:06 PM
tractionengines tractionengines is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

Sturtevant Steam Engine on a number of Craigslist sites. Look up this. May be bigger than you want but it is "new". Don't know anything about it just saw it today, and then read your post. No price listed.

http://sacramento.Place Craigslist ads on Enginads.com/for/2649843187.html

Look carefully as it is listed on about 5+ sites on the wast coast.

Mike
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:05 PM
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Tom Cwach Tom Cwach is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

You might be able to find a Soule Speed-E-Twin engine. They were made to drive a sawmill carrage.
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:55 PM
oilpulled oilpulled is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

The paddle wheel is usually the crankshaft on a steamboat.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:42 PM
WisconsinSteam5443 WisconsinSteam5443 is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

yeah ebay hasn't been very kind to me wallet wise. I am looking for local leads though!

---------- Post added at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilpulled View Post
The paddle wheel is usually the crankshaft on a steamboat.
Yeah, that is if i was to use the traditional stern wheeler style steam engines, one on each side of paddlewheel. however, my plan is to have a single engine with a chain drive to the wheel, and dummy cranks on the wheel for authenticity.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:50 PM
WisconsinSteam5443 WisconsinSteam5443 is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

Here's some blueprints I did on MasterCam. More to come
Attached Thumbnails
308596_295945973750964_100000066903268_1250083_868305224_n.jpg   300177_295945850417643_100000066903268_1250082_1907950515_n.jpg  
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:14 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

what diameter pontoons are you going to use. it will take some pretty large diameter ones for the weight you will be carrying

rod
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:36 PM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

You need to watch the height, a friend of ours had his 65' paddle wheeler blow over a few years ago due to high winds and it went on its side and to the bottom of the Ohio River. They did recover the boat off of the bottom, but it is no longer in service and is dry docked on a barge with no future unless someone wants a really big project. I would like to have it but I don't have the heart to bring it to Florida where I live because the salt water would destroy the hull.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:46 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

where is it located. i always need another project
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:14 AM
stufforbud stufforbud is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

I've got a Soule Speed-E-Twin that I started to restore a couple of years ago and it got put on the back burner. I'm pretty sure it's all there, just needs assy.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:44 PM
WisconsinSteam5443 WisconsinSteam5443 is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

Could you post some picture?
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:36 PM
tirediron tirediron is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisconsinSteam5443 View Post
Here's some blueprints I did on MasterCam. More to come
I'm not a naval architect, but I have been a sailor for 25+ years and picked up the odd tid-bit about ship design here and there. First of all, why pontoons instead of a displacement hull, and second, assuming that your design is to scale, the pontoons seem grossly under-sized and very unstable.

Think of the lateral axis of the pontoon as a pivot point, and looking how close that is to the surface of the water with such a [relatively] tall super-structure, it's not going to take a lot of effort to push that over on it's side, and when it goes, there's not going to be any recovery (without a crane).

If you want a catamaran style design, how about a twin displacement hull?
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Old 10-19-2011, 03:24 PM
WisconsinSteam5443 WisconsinSteam5443 is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

I choose the pontoon design because of it's simplicity. I'm also going for low cost. My idea is to take a pontoon deck and strip it bare, and build up from that. However, i would prefer an authentic displacement hull. I dont know where to get one tho...

---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

Oh, and reguarding their size, the pontoons I drew up on the plans are not to scale. I just have them there so you can see them. the actual demensions are yet to be determined once the gross weight is figured out.
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:31 PM
tirediron tirediron is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

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Originally Posted by WisconsinSteam5443 View Post
...Oh, and reguarding their size, the pontoons I drew up on the plans are not to scale.
Ah, okay, gotcha. If I can make an unsolicited suggestion however, perhaps with assistance of some of the more knowledgable members here, you can make some estimates on the weight and volume of the engine, boiler, fuel and feedwater and then take that to a naval architect and get their input. I may be (probably am) way off base here, but I have some serious reservations about the use of this style of pontoon boat. Not trying to be a nay-sayer or know it all, but it would suck about 32" Hg worth to get it all built, only to find out that it had so much forward resistance that wouldn't go more than 1-2 knts.

That said, GOOD LUCK and keep us posted.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

I have been doing a little research on stern-wheelers. Here are a couple of good links:

http://users.wirefire.com/gemort/vern%20p1.htm
http://www.thesteamboatingforum.net/forum/index.php

Spend a little bit of time reading at that forum - those guys seem to know how to build a boat. Most of us at this site can help you with the steam engine, but for the most part, we don't know about things that float.
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:07 AM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

I don't know how much of a machinist you are, or how many machinist friends you've got, but would you possibly think of buying a non-reversing engine and then building a reverse gear to suit? I don't think it would be terribly complicated to build or get built a Stephensen link style reverse, or maybe something else, for a non-reversing engine. A couple of eccentrics, some eccentric straps, and a few rods and one could be made without a world of trouble, I would think.

A non-reversing style might be a lot easier, and a lot cheaper to find for a stationary type engine. Since I don't know squat about steam boats, I have no idea of the size of engine you're going to need.

One style of reversing engine you might could find, though, and maybe not too expensively would be a smaller donkey engine, or some other kind of hoisting engine. Two cylinder, and reversing. Only problem is those engines are usually steam HOGS, since they don't have much in the way of cut off.

Mike M
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:40 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

Horsepower is the cube of speed. If you want to go, you will need a lot of HP. Don't get too small an engine.
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Old 10-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

Living in Florida it is very hard to not be around boats and I am not trying to ruin your dream, but I can tell by just looking at your design that the boat is too narrow for the height and it will cause you problems. Even if it does not tip over onto its side, it will require so much horse power to push the boat forward (or in reverse) in a side wind that you will quickly exceed your weight requirements of your pontoon design quickly. You might get away with four pontoons, but you should either almost double your width or make it one story. I have a couple of acquaintances that are naval architects for world renowned yacht companies in Stuart, FL, and I’m pretty sure they would say similar things that I am stating if they were to take a glimpse of your design. Continue to refine design, and find the compromises that you can live with on the height, otherwise you are going to have to make it so wide you will not be able to trailer it without special permits if you wanted to move it to another location by land. The sternwheeler that was flipped on its side and sunk that is 65’ long is one story with a ˝ wheelhouse out of the roof and it is 12’ wide at the waterline and it still went over with the owner going through the glass windows and being seriously hurt. I enjoy boats, but just like a steam engine they are no fun if someone gets hurt.

I have everything to put a steam launch together and that is two more projects down the line, but with prices where they are on used steam launches right now, I would like to suggest to you (and me) that you consider a used launch that is operating because you can’t build one for the prices I have seen on used boats right now. Beckman had a very nice large boat with a code boiler advertised a few months ago for $8,500.00 and that is a tough price to beat on a ready to run steam boat.

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 PM ----------

http://www.rogersmachine.net/steamshowcharlton09.html

There is a pontoon steamboat about 1/2 down the page at the link above.
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Stern-Wheel Paddle Steamer:

A ship or boat will displace it's own weight in water.

1 gallon water = 231 cubic inches = 8.333 pounds. (salt water approximately 8.573 lbs.)
1 pound of water = 27.7 cubic inches.
1 cubic foot of water = 7.5 gallons = 62.5 pounds (salt water weighs approximately 64.3 pounds per cubic foot).

If a small vessel displaces 90 cubic feet of water, it's weight is 5,625 lbs.
As 90 x 62.5 = 5,625 lbs. of water being displaced.

A vessel with too much buoyancy is in danger of capsizing, as it's merely skimming on the water. That's why an empty ship takes on ballast water. When that same empty ship is navigating in rivers & harbors, it takes on more ballast water, otherwise it's harder to control when meeting other ships, etc. In stormy weather, the ballast tanks are usually filled to their maximum, and sometimes they'll pump water into the empty cargo holds.

Wishing you the best on your paddlewheeler project!


Gary K
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