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Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets MEP Mobile Electric Power, APU Auxiliary Power Unit and other military surplus generators.

Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets

MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video


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Old 12-04-2011, 12:32 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

I posted this a few days ago over in Steel Soldiers...thought it would be just as useful here. Since my initial assessment, I have completed the conversion and done some testing to prove that it works (see video in the 2nd post):

So…most of us with 3 phase MEP generator sets have wondered if it is possible to rewire the set for something other than 120/208 or 240/417v. Some have asked the question in the forum here and the consensus seems to be that it won’t work. I think it will.

*I am using one of my MEP-004a’s for testing, so the numbers I am posting are related to its power/current/voltage ratings.

Why re-configure? Well, many of the people who own these generators use them only in single phase, at 120/208v. According to the TM, this is permissible, and the vast majority of 240v appliances operate just fine at 208v. But…there are a few loads that don’t like 208v. And, you are limited to 100% of rated current for each phase; so unless you are sending power to 2 separate services, you can only get about 43A, or 9kW. Re-configuring the set for its intended use nets you more useable power, and provides more appropriate voltage for the loads.

I began thinking about the possibility of re-configuring my MEP-004a the other day, and spent a few hours reading through Steelsoldiers and Smokstak; although there were a few stories of a guy who knew a guy whose buddy’s brother-in-law rewired an MEP for single phase, I couldn’t find a single post by somebody who had actually attempted it. I went a step further, and wondered if it would be possible to wire the generator in a 3 phase delta configuration, thinking that 120/240 delta would be useful for the small shop with several large 240v 3 phase loads, and a requirement for a light single phase 120v load. So, I spent another few hours poring over the schematics. Here are the conclusions I come up with:

The MEP’s use a standard 12 lead generator head. That means that, from the generator’s point of view, pretty much any standard voltage is possible. The problem is in the generators instrumentation and control system…the current transformers for the ammeter and safety trips are designed around a 3 phase wye setup. There is no provision for single phase in how the CT’s are wired. However…this doesn’t mean that single phase isn’t possible, it just means that there might be a few “quirks” to deal with when running single phase. I think that all of the safety trips will still function properly, as they are all designed around current passing through the individual windings of the generator. It doesn’t matter how the load is placed on those windings…the cumulative current is what is important and that will not change. The wattmeter should work properly. I believe that the voltmeter will also work properly; it will indicate line voltage as designed and simply read 0 when switched to the phase not being used (for single phase). The ammeter should also indicate current…however it may be a little confusing. It may indicate actual line current, ½ line current, or 1/√3 line current depending on how the switch is selected and the method I choose to re-wire the generator. This is because of where the CT measures the current (it may be possible to re-wind the CT to work properly, but I’ll jump that hurdle if my re-wire actually works and produces useable power). The voltage regulator should also work properly; it is designed to provide 120v per winding and that is all that is needed to produce the voltages that I am aiming for. 480v 3 phase delta is not possible with this generator, as it requires 240v per winding. I believe the following configurations are possible:

3 phase:
1. 417/240v wye (adjustable from 348/200v up to 480/277v) This is a factory-installed voltage
2. 208/120v wye (adjustable from 173/110v up to 240/138v) This is a factory-installed voltage
3. 240/120v Delta (adjustable from 200/100v up to 277/138v) This does change how current flows through the CT’s and may cause problems with the overload trip and ammeter reading
4. 120v Delta (adjustable from 100v to 138v) I don’t think this is a very useful configuration…don’t know of too many 120v 3 phase loads. But, it should be possible. Same CT issues as 240/120v delta.

Single Phase (both 120/240v configurations produce the same power, just different methods of wiring):
1. 120/240v Double Delta (adjustable from 100/200v up to 138/277v) Same issues with the CT
2. 120/240v low zigzag, or dogleg (adjustable from 100/200v up to 138/277v) Same issues with the CT
3. 240/480v high zigzag (adjustable from 200/400v up to 277/554v) Don’t know how many single phase 480v loads are out there, but 554v might be useful for the guy trying to get a little more lightning length out of his Tesla coil. Same issues with the CT

There are a few issues to deal with and things to think about:
1. The cable size going to the main circuit breaker and to the load terminals is too small for the increased current that is possible during single phase operation. It should be upsized appropriately.
2. I believe that no additional current would be traveling through individual generator windings, meaning that you could get the full rated 15kW out of the generator at 120/240v single phase without exceeding the design limits of the windings (however, the overload trip will still limit you to the current ratings from 3 phase operation).
3. The CT 1-3 could be re-wound to indicate proper current on each “leg”. This would also affect the overload trip.
4. Re-winding the CT’s might indicate proper current; however the overload trip is still set to 130% of the 3 phase rated current; meaning that it will still trip at roughly 55A, even though 63A would be the 100% rated current for single phase 120/240. It may be possible to add a properly sized resistor inline with the overload trip relays, as they only have a very small amount of current passing through them. This resistor could be sized to adjust the overload trip to the new 130% rated current of 82A. Another option would be to increase the size of resistors R23, R24, and R25 in the tactical relay box. It also may be possible to remove one turn of the generator leads from the CT; this would change how the ammeter and wattmeter read, and it would also raise the overload trip setpoint by roughly 25% (this is the method I intend to experiment with).
5. L0 is internally bonded to ground in the generator; therefore it would be absolutely critical to remove this bond prior to starting up the generator in delta configuration. Failure to do so would result in a hardwired phase to ground short.
6. T10, T11, and T12 are bonded together under the voltage reconnection board. It is critical to remove/modify this bonding bar for any configuration other than Wye. Failure to remove it would result is a phase to phase to phase short.
7. The generator reconfiguration should be able to be completed all on the voltage reconnection board; a few jumper wires and buss bars would complete the reconfiguration. I’m hoping to come up with a VERY simple reconnection for zigzag; the other connections will require a bit more work. For that reason I’ll try the zigzag first, and if it works I may proceed to experiment with the delta configurations.

I am planning on attempting this in the coming few weeks with one of my -004a sets. Of course I’ll take all of the safety precautions; and I am prepared for the possibility that I may destroy some critical internal components with my meddling (although I don’t think this will happen…otherwise I wouldn’t be trying it).
I’ll set up the video camera when I first fire this thing up, just in case I manage to create molten copper and smoke instead of single phase power.
I think I have a grasp on the problems, pitfalls, etc. associated with this reconfiguration (albeit a loose grasp). I’m looking for input before I try this out…anything I’ve missed? Am I re-creating something that somebody else has already accomplished?

Attached some relevant schematics and diagrams...
Attached Thumbnails
3 phase connection diagram.jpg   single phase connection diagram.JPG   generator schematic 1.jpg   generator schematic 3.jpg  
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:34 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

And, here's a link to the video documenting the conversion process, and the generator running single phase:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8pcERIMgo
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:30 AM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Had an hour or so to do some testing tonight. It is about 10 degrees below freezing outside, so for the first time I set up the load bank and generator inside of my closed shop and plumbed the exhaust outdoors. Normally my waste oil furnace does a fine job of keeping the shop warm, but it gets REALLY hot in there with a generator pumping 15kW into a resistive load bank...might have to move the load bank outside for tests on warmer days. Can't imaging what it would be like with my -006A pushing 75kW into it.
I haven't done any 3 phase tests on it yet, so I haven't had the chance to verify that the meters all read properly. Some of the meter responses might be because of the single phase mod, some might be because the meters themselves are out of whack.
I hooked up my load bank single phase and began doing some load tests on the generator. Basically, I just wanted to see what the set was capable of in single phase, and if my predictions were correct. I'll post a complete list of my findings and observations in my initial post once all of my testing is done, but I thought I would sum up a few of my results from tonight:

- The set's voltmeter only seems to read properly when selected to the L1-L3 position (240v), and L3-L0 position (120v). I expected L1-L0 to also read 120v, but it reads closer to 200v. I don't know why yet...

- The overloads function as predicted. I loaded the set to about 65A, and it tripped at about 9 minutes. I set it to about 58A and pulled that load for about 30 minutes with no trip. Seems my prediction was correct for those

- The % rated current meter reads the exact same thing for L1, L2, and L3. I missed the prediction on that one...I had guessed that it wouldn't read properly except in 1 position

- The % power meter doesn't move at all. I suspect that it is not functioning. I'll test and repair it when I do a 3 phase load test.

-I used an infared thermometer to check for hot spots in the wiring...none found.

-There appears to be more voltage droop from zero to full load that I am used to. I was getting 120v at no load, and about 100v at a full 15kW single phase load. I'll see if this is a problem with defective excitation circuitry, or if the issue is related to the single phase mod.


Overall, things went as expected. It seems that this modification is a viable one for the person who wants 120/240 split phase out of their machine.

Next step (which probably should have been the first step) is to set the generator back up for 3 phase and do some load testing to check for proper operation of all of the generator's components.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:03 AM
nehog nehog is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

IIRC, the field is wound with 12 AWG wire, I wonder if measuring the current on each winding might be useful in determining the power capabilities? (One of the reasons that I think double delta is better as I think it would spread the load better on the windings...)
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:57 AM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

It also may be possible to remove one turn of the generator leads from the CT
Sewerzuk - If possible, instead of removing one turn from CT, I would tap coil one turn in, bring both existing lead and tap out to a terminal block. Terminal 1 would be full CT coil, labeled 3 ph. Terminal 2 is the tap - 1 turn in, labeled 1 PH. That way I still have all original capabilities of gen set.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:40 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
It also may be possible to remove one turn of the generator leads from the CT
Sewerzuk - If possible, instead of removing one turn from CT, I would tap coil one turn in, bring both existing lead and tap out to a terminal block. Terminal 1 would be full CT coil, labeled 3 ph. Terminal 2 is the tap - 1 turn in, labeled 1 PH. That way I still have all original capabilities of gen set.
That's a good idea; I'll do it that way if I can prove that pulling one winding will create the desired effect. Much easier to move a few wires on a terminal block than pull the leads off of the recon board and rewind them every time I changes the set over.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:49 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Had some time last night, so I reconfigured the set for 3 phase and did some load testing. Everything works properly except for the % power meter; I'll get that repaired in the next few days.
The biggest thing I was looking for was whether or not the voltage remained steady over the entire load range...and it did. Varied by a volt or two from 0-20kW. That means the excessive droop I was seeing in single phase is related to the single phase modification and not because of something defective in the generator.
While it is certainly possible to use the generator in this condition under a relatively steady load, it isn't viable for any kind of varying load. I can imagine having the set adjusted for 120v at full load, dropping 95% of the load and then suddenly begin supplying 145v to the remaining load. Not good...

I'm pretty sure that is is related to where the VR/exciter senses its voltage, and may be related to the odd reading I was getting on the installed voltmeter. Pretty sure I can figure out how to make the VR work properly single phase...I'll be looking into it this weekend.
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Old 12-08-2011, 12:06 PM
BergmanJ BergmanJ is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Sewerzuk,

I think that you may be on the right track with your comment about where it senses for 1-ph. Your single phase load should be on the same winding as sense, for best control; unless your gen has a seperate sense (harmonic - whatever you want to call it) winding.

Hope this may help you (or others).

Regards, JLB
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:03 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Got finished with work a little early today, so I spent some more time reading over the schematics. I don't believe the difference between 208v and 240v is significant, as 240v is within the normal adjustment range of the VR during normal 3 phase operation.
I believe I identified and corrected all of the issues:


1. The voltage regulator senses voltage from between T8, T9, and T12. While I'm not sure what it does with these voltages internally, my low zigzag mod changed the voltages that it saw from this:
T8 and T9: 208v
T9 and T12: 120v
T8 and T12: 120v

To this:
T8 and T9: 120v
T9 and T12: 120v
T8 and T12: 0v

To correct this, I moved X8HH16B from T8 to T11. This results in the VR seeing the following voltages:
T11 and T9: 240v
T9 and T12: 120v
T11 and T12: 120v

As you can see, this brings its voltage inputs back to something more normal.


2. The thermal watt converter receives inputs from T7, T8, and T10. My low zigzag mod changed the voltages it saw from this:
T7 to T8: 208V
T7 to T10: 120V
T8 to T10: 120V

to this:
T7 to T8: somewhere around 208V. It is in the middle of the now floating L2
T7 to T10: 120V (right leg)
T8 to T10: 120v, depending on current flow, load, etc. Probably drops as load goes up.

To correct this, I moved X8A16B to T3. This results in the thermal watt converter seeing the following voltages:
T7 to T3: 240V
T7 to T10: 120v
T3 to T10: 120V

This brings the voltage inputs to the thermal watt converter back to normal.


3. This is probably the most important one; and looking at it I believe I'm a little lucky that I didn't burn anything up during my initial testing. I should have thought about/caught this issue right away when I first did the modification...but I caught it now and no harm is done. There is a lead that goes to T12 on the recon board that provides the L0 (neutral, or zero potential) to many components in the special relay box, the thermal watt converter, the voltage regulator, exciter, LMU, overvoltage relay, and the voltmeter (might even be more). When I cut the buss bar that connected T10, T11, and T12 together and ran the jumper from T12 to T3, I created a floating neutral inside of all of those components. This explains the strange readings I was getting on the voltmeter, and was likely the biggest reason for the large voltage droop. I moved the lead (X12EG16N) from its original position on T12 to T13, restoring the neutral.



After all of the reconnections were made, I fired up the generator and duplicated the load test. Sure enough, the voltmeter worked properly and the excessive droop was gone.
I only ran the set for a few minutes during the testing; this weekend I hope to do some extended load/overload tests, and then jump on the CT re-wiring to correct the ammeter and overload trip issue.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:20 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

I managed to find a little more time; got my % power meter swapped out (it was the meter itself; internal corrosion due to water intrusion).

I had to pull my load bank out of the shop for a job in Portland today, so before I disconnected it from my -004a I ran it at a little under 60A (14kW) in single phase for about an hour (just below the overload trip setpoint). Used my IR thermometer to check for hot spots in the wiring and gen components, and after shut down I felt everything as well. I paid particular attention to the 12 generator leads, voltage reconnection board, CT leads, and the harness going to/from the VR/static exciter; no problems found. All of the meters operated properly; voltmeter indicated a steady 120v on L1-L0 and L3-L0, and 240v on L1-L3. % current and % power meters operated as expected, showing percentages related to the 3 phase limits (both were operating around 120%).

This weekend I intend to test the overload trip on L1 and L3 to make sure it still trips at about 60A (130% of rated 3 phase current), and then I will pull one of the four turns from each phase passing through the CT. This should reduce the ammeter and wattmeter readings by 25% and adjust the overload trips up by 25%, making the new trip about 75A, or 18kW single phase. This should allow me to do a little bit of overload testing, and pull the full rated 15kW out of the generator. If this works, I'll create and upload another video showing the entire conversion process from start to finish...
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Old 01-28-2012, 08:35 PM
Badacuransx Badacuransx is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Did you ever get enough time to retest?? I have a mep004a and would like to rewire it to single phase if this works. Thanks You do a great job on your posts thanks for sharing all your valuable time
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Old 01-28-2012, 09:36 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

I have; just haven't had time to make up another video. I'm working on one this weekend. The conversion has been complete for some time and I have worked out all of the bugs. I'll post it up here as soon as I'm done.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:19 AM
wweng wweng is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

sewerzuk, I can read the first wiring schematic posted above, but not the second one. Where did you find these? I have downloaded the Technical Manual, but they are not in it. Thanks for the videos and explanations. This is exactly what I need to do.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:44 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

All of the schematics I used were in TM-9-6115-464-12 , starting on page 336.
I did upload an updated video, showing all of the reconnections that I did to make the meters and overloads work properly. Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmF4Awr3uc4

I also managed to adjust the CT's output with some resistors across the secondary windings; this dropped the % power, % current, and trip setpoints down to match the single phase configuration. I ran the generator at close to 17kw for a long time in single phase 120/240, no problems at all.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:37 PM
andytk5 andytk5 is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

I also managed to adjust the CT's output with some resistors across the secondary windings; this dropped the % power, % current, and trip setpoints down to match the single phase configuration. I ran the generator at close to 17kw for a long time in single phase 120/240, no problems at all.[/QUOTE]

Sewerzuk - I am a new owner of a 004a. Still in the cleanup phase with some repairs to do, noteably the Therm Watt Conv (leaked out). Gen runs well though.

I am very interested in your mod to use this as a back-up power for florida hurricanes. Can you include the resistors you used and possibly some pics if possible. Ful disclosure: I am a complete noob to these big gens. Only used small gas gens for storms.

Also thank you for taking the time to post those very informative videos with all the information on these gens. Well done!
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:13 AM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Attached is the one pic I have. I would take some more, but I sold that generator about a month ago. It was the last -004a that I had! But, the mod is fairly simple. Just attach some 10 watt, 38 ohm resistors across the 3 pairs of CT windings. Here is a link to some good resistors to use (these are 35 ohm, close enough):

http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...-35-ND/1166287
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DSC01748.jpg  
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:00 AM
andytk5 andytk5 is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Thanks so much for the pic sewerzuk! It does look very doable (even for me!). Just making an inline resistor then connecting to each side. Very cool. Also where can I purchase a new Therm Watt Converter or do I need one?

Thanks again!
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:35 PM
sewerzuk sewerzuk is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Quote:
Originally Posted by andytk5 View Post
Thanks so much for the pic sewerzuk! It does look very doable (even for me!). Just making an inline resistor then connecting to each side. Very cool. Also where can I purchase a new Therm Watt Converter or do I need one?

Thanks again!
Yep; the procedure isn't too difficult. Hardest part is getting the nuts off on the forward most CT tap...they're buried in there pretty good.

As far as the thermal watt converter...watch the classified ads on Steel Soldiers. Every now and then somebody parts one of these sets out and the parts can be had for cheap.
Your other option is to use one of the surplus dealers (Delk's, Oshkosh, etc.). Their prices are typically fairly high, but they will be able to send you parts on short notice.

If the thermal watt converter is still actually working, I would just keep using it. Once it fails, the only think that I believe it will affect is the front panel meter readings...
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:50 PM
andytk5 andytk5 is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

Great. Thanks so much. I'll keep checking there.

I am not really sure if it is working or not since the only guages not working are the load guages and I don't kow which are actually affected by that. Hope to get to the conversion soon and then hook it up to the house to pull a decent load.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:56 PM
RichL RichL is offline
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Default Re: MEP-004a re-wire for single phase operation, with video

I went to do a conversion like yours on my mep-004, and there is no bus bar. Can any bady tell me why?
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