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Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Predator Generators


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  #61  
Old 06-08-2015, 10:22:57 AM
Grinderkenny Grinderkenny is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I have a HF 4000 watt generator. I have never had any problems with mine and I us my every week in our mobile detailing business. There is a few key points to remember. Fist the generator is shipped with no oil in it and is not broken in. First, I have bought a few items for my generator. (All listed bellow):

1. Quart of Mobile 1 full synthetic oil.

2. Hour meter - This is a must for any small engine. This helps keep track of maintenance.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...rch_detailpage

3. Measuring funnel with a long tube - This allows for you to place exactly the right amount of oil and with a long tube means no spills.
http://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-10704-...nnel+with+hose

4. Liquivac - My generator is in a cargo trailer and bolted down, also it weights 126 pounds so its hard to move and there is no way to easily get a funnel under the drain plug. So I suck the oil out through the dip stick port.
http://www.amazon.com/America-2005-L...l+suction+pump

I have followed the maintenance and break in instructions to a tee with a few exceptions. I filled the generator with .6 quarts of mobile 1 oil and ran the generator for its break in for 3 hours with little to no load after that I changed the oil an ran the generator like normal for 17 hours then changed the oil again. After that I have done exactly what the manual says to do on oil changes every 20 hours
I also use Sta-Bil gas stablilizer in every fill-up.

I have had no problems with the generator. It has way over 100 hours on it and it always starts on the first pull. I did buy the extended warranty and because of that I follow the maitance exactly. The only thing I would change is as soon as the warranty is up I may start changing the oil every 40 hours since I am running mobile 1
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  #62  
Old 06-08-2015, 09:21:12 PM
Railroads Railroads is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Those little 212cc engines do have plastic cam gear and after about 1000 hours they break.

Thanks to the Gokart folks there is after market parts available now for those engines. Replacment steel camshaft can be found here. http://www.bmikarts.com/Stock-Camsha...gine_p_24.html

User Thaumaturge has some knowledge of clone engines has helped me find the steel cam I mentioned above. Thanks Doc.

Robert
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  #63  
Old 06-11-2015, 07:41:53 AM
Arkie Arkie is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

China gen's and air compressors are junk. (how do I know this?)Been their done that!
I do not ever work on or touch Chaina made stuff for anyone other than myself. I've had people beg me to just replace a small part on their China eq for example a air compressor, such as a check valve. When I declined working on a small air comp for a friend he told me later that he took it to another guy he heard about that tinkered with equipment and the guy worked on it for approx. 2 hours trying to replace a odd ball check valve and told him, not in a nice way if he is going to buy equipment like this China made stuff he needs to learn how to work on his own stuff and too not bring it back again.
My thoughts were that apparently the guy working on the China stuff had not already acquired the experience of such.
I told my friend that the guy maybe should have actually thanked him for the experience of getting to work on his China stuff and to point that out to the any service people in the future, but be ready to make a fast exit.

NUFF said:
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  #64  
Old 06-11-2015, 10:20:14 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

there can never be enough said about how unreliable this "stuff" is.
you could be saving someone's life
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  #65  
Old 06-14-2015, 12:04:36 AM
ArodaPowerCo ArodaPowerCo is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

While I can not speak specifically of the Predator products, perhaps I can offer a perspective that most here do not have. I am a professional small engine mechanic that performs warranty repairs for many of the "big blue box" stores in my region. When things are busy, I put 40-60 units per week through my shop. Most are mowers, but I see a large number of generators in the course of a year. Here's my thoughts...

The Generac models sold at box stores ARE NOT the same as the ones sold by Generac dealers. The box store models are spec'd by the seller to meet a price point, and are much lower quality. Most of the cost saving is done in the engine. Every Generac problem I have encountered not caused by the owner has been engine related.

There is another brand yellow in color (not Titan), that does take a surprising amount of punishment. I have had two of the $299 price point units in my shop with close to 1000 hours on them. 6 months old and they were toast. Likely powering a meth lab or grow lights but that's neither here nor there... I contacted the manufacturer (read: importer) and was told that past 300 hours, there is no warranty. Don't care if it's 3 months old. Still, I was impressed they will go that long.

There is a red in color generator with a good American name engine and Chinese made gen-head. Believe it or not, the engine is garbage, and the head is one of the better ones out there. About a year ago I saw at least one a week where the engine had positive crankcase ventilation.

An example I give customers about quality all the time is my personal mower. It is a 1967 Cub Cadet 104. Nearly 50 years old and still mowing grass once a week. No, they don't build 'em like that any more. NO ONE does. Why not? Because in '67 that garden tractor cost more than a new Ford F-100. Think about that a second... What if you went to your friendly Cub Cadet dealer today and got quoted $35,000 for a 10hp tractor with 48" deck? Heck no they don't build 'em like they did in '67.

Bottom line is this. For the money, you really can't complain about what you're getting with the Chinese "junk". The lower quality makes maintenance exponentially more important, as they are NOT forgiving of missed oil changes, low oil, poor quality oil, and overloading. The failed units I see are very seldom caused by a defect or poor quality. Nearly always, one of the aforementioned maintenance items was neglected.

All that said, REAL generators run at 1800 rpm and like others in this thread have pointed out, Craigslist is full of 'em.
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  #66  
Old 06-14-2015, 09:15:50 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

another issue; ambient temp

thanks again john for fixing that 5Kw Colemann

what it would do in the winter at 30 to 40 F
it failed to do in the summer at 85 to 90 F
at first just hard to start ending with a totally fritzed exhaust valve.
at least it was repairable. and adjustable, [a little less lean]

on the other hand my 1800 rpm K-582 Kohler powered Homelite
has seen lots of work in it's 40 summers.
not over taxed with an engine spec of near 3 Hp/Kw

the previous owner, my late friend and his family, took it camping [along with an air-conditioner for their tent].
it took care of my mothers house, including a window AC, during a week long July outage.

one is not going to find reliability in 3600 rpm generator sets built to a price point.

Last edited by armandh; 06-14-2015 at 09:28:21 AM.
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  #67  
Old 06-14-2015, 09:47:02 AM
ArodaPowerCo ArodaPowerCo is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by armandh View Post
one is not going to find reliability in 3600 rpm generator sets built to a price point.
Precisely. The only well made 3600 rpm units out there are Honda and Winco (at least that I know of). Obviously, neither are built to a price point.
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  #68  
Old 08-10-2015, 10:37:37 PM
oilitright oilitright is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I happened into this discussion after getting a Harbor Freight flyer with much ballyhoo on Predator generators so I thought I'd do a little research. My conclusion after having done so is 'no thanks'. About 10 years ago I had move to an area in Oregon that had very sketchy electrical service, if the weather did anything not good the power went out. I first purchased a Honda 650 suitcase model, it worked very well, one pull start, quiet as you could hope for only it wasn't very much power but it kept the lights on and made coffee. Eventually I started looking for a bigger generator and I was not impressed with what I found at an affordable price. One day I was looking in the penny saver or might have been Craigslist and there was an ad for generators and the like. So I went to this guys house and he had pi;es of generators, pumps and all manner of infernal combustion equipment. Turns out he was retiring from many years of selling and repairing irrigation pumps, generators etc. Anyway he convince me to let him build me a genset from NOS which he did. He welded up a frame and put some all terrain casters on it and mounted a WINCO power head (alternator) and a small diesel engine used for irrigation pumps, the kind that gets dropped into a field and runs for years. This really was my lucky day because I've run that generator many, many times and it runs everything, starts every time and has a hand crank if the battery goes away but I keep a battery manager on it. Oh yeah I paid $350 for it. My point to all this is I have heard more bad reports on more different Asian market generators than is possible to remember. And the consensus is they all suck, sooner or later. What's worse there are a lot of high binders for will fleece unsuspecting buyers and charge ridiculous prices for this Asian junk. Caveat Emptor
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  #69  
Old 08-11-2015, 11:06:02 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArodaPowerCo View Post
Precisely. The only well made 3600 rpm units out there are Honda and Winco (at least that I know of). Obviously, neither are built to a price point.
or in the refurbished market
http://www.battlegradeelectric.com/mep701a.php
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  #70  
Old 08-04-2016, 11:34:31 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I'd like to add my .02 in on this long-dead thread. I have had a few chinese generators myself and the Chinese ones aren't too bad if you treat them right. right after a long power outage 2 years ago I picked up a typical Chinese unit from the junkyard, faded red paint and all. was a Jiang Dong. that's a decent name in the Chinese Honda clone department. no compression, figured it would be an easy fix of a stuck valve. got it for $20. not so. ended up that the exhaust valve decided to drop the head into the cylinder. made a small hole in the piston with what was left of the stem. extricated the broken valve and substituted one from a parts clone I had and it ran, but smoked. welded the hole in the piston and slapped the head back on with the old gasket and some RTV (im so terrible) and its been running fine for the last 2 years and has had over 100 hours' use since then. the oil changes come out black, but no metal shavings. no idea why it dropped a valve but its been running strong ever since. I have a few of the 2 cycles as well from HF that are ok as long as you use stabil in the gas in the winter.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:59:20 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

My "junk" 3200 W Predator gen has over 2,000 hours on it.... Unknown because I ran it over a month before adding hour meter. Meter now reads 2,047 hours. I use it every day for 10-14 hours. Just developing problem with plastic choke assembly. Not a problem, even if I have to re-engineer it. All I do is change oil about every 100 hours run time. After third oil change I added one time molybdenum disulfide treatment. I run NAPA 10-30. I never run gasahol (says right on gen NO E85!)
Generally starts first pull.
Doc

Oh, forgot to report I also added N42 magnets to both drain plugs. Found some 8mm x 5mm magnets that fit perfectly. Wipe them every oil change.
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Last edited by Thaumaturge; 08-05-2016 at 05:00:12 AM.
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  #72  
Old 08-07-2016, 05:35:09 PM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

There are two kinds of clone.
The standard ( the good kind ) and the one where the Chinese think they are smarter than the Japanese..

Most 208 or 212 engines are of the latter type.
Most are hard to fix and find parts for.

A 196 clone will use all Honda parts

Kart racing has made clone parts easier to find.
They are worth rebuilding since the parts are so cheap.
The electrics on the other hand are a crap shoot, but they are also generally standard and a Champion regulator for example will fit a WASP or Powerfist ( even a Honda.....

All clones are too lean from the box and drilling the jets will help.
Some race sources offer an adjustable main jet worth trying ( unless you want to mess with a jet kit or drill your own ).

All clones have timing all over the place.
Put a light on it and find out. if you are between 20 and 24 that's near ideal but most are retarded more than that.

Non of them seem to have had their valves lapped.

Champions have the best rockers ( better than a Honda )

Almost all clones with a dish piston will run better with a 14 or 18 cc head of a GX160 and make more power with less fuel burn.

All clones seem to be a little too tight on the rod to big end so a careful break in required.
If you seize one because of this and it does not blow up in the process you can often clean the crank with caustic soda and polish it out ( as long as your round and under .005 with the plastic gauge your OK to run )
ARC makes a hollow dipper rod with good babbit bearing for racing.
This rod in a generator will last until the bore is worn out and the crank will still be good )

rebuilding a clone?
Use Predator 363 ( last three digits from the code on the box harbor freight ) piston for all clones with a standard Honda wrist pin on a 70mm bore.
There is a larger wrist pin used in some but if you use this piston you can swap back to a Honda rod in all 208 engines or an ARC honda rod or use the short 212 rod for 363 in all others.

For 196 true clone rebuild use Honda Z4M pistons with a stock head for increased compression.
You could use this piston with a GX160 head too but then you need premium fuel ( this is often done in racing )

Some clones use a cam with a larger bearing as well as a plastic gear.
Don't mix them up or you will be sorry.

Most 212 engines ( long stroke motors ) have a different taper on the flywheel DO NOT mix up the flywheels or you will be sorry there too!
Kohler clones ALL have a different taper from a Honda be warned.
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  #73  
Old 08-08-2016, 01:48:33 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I have never seen a Kohler clone. Where would one be found?
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  #74  
Old 08-09-2016, 05:07:32 PM
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birken Vogt View Post
I have never seen a Kohler clone. Where would one be found?
i think he's talking about the cheap 208cc clones that are labeled as a kohler sold on cheap rototillers and such from TSC and family farm and home.


[/COLOR]also, as Newoldstock said, the direct clones are the best. the generator I talked about in my above post is a 196cc. direct GX200 clone. Honda parts will work on it. the pred's from HF aren't too bad if you are powering a gocart or minibike with them but good luck getting parts from HF. the item # 60363 from HF is a better engine made usually by Loncin. its got a flat top piston and a Hemi head. has the cast rocker cover instead of the stamped steel. its a better engine than the others that are made by Chonquing RATO. ive had a few engines made by Jiang Dong like the generator was and have found them to be nearly as good as Honda. the one I had apart completely didn't have any plastic internal components except for the governor gear.
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  #75  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:22:34 AM
richard.bessey richard.bessey is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I wanted to share my ... similar experience.
I don't have the predator engine, I have the previous line of engines sold by harbor freight. They are made by Lifan and were sold as greyhound engines. The engine I have is ... 7 years old now. Its china made. Its ran on my rototiller, water pump, and generator. Its gone through ... three hour meters (Vibrations keep killing the chinese hour meters) Overall, its got a couple hundred hours on it and is running well at the moment.
I have had to tinker with it a bit, an oil leak with the head gasket, gas cap leaked, and some bolts came loose. All easily fixable. Also I ran synthentic oil in it once, it leaked, and clogged a vent line on the carbureator. I ended up replacing the carb to find this problem.
Other then that, it runs well, it cost me $100, its required a little bit of maintence but has worked for me.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:40:25 AM
Newoldstock Newoldstock is offline
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Exclamation Re: Predator Generators

The predator 212 hemi 60363 is a Loncin product.
Lots of other people use it under a different name.
My only beef with the engine is the rod is too short the head is no hell as built.
The used a good clone Honda block ( other than 70mm bore it is identical ) but the extra stroke means the rod is even shorter than a Honda ( and I think that rod is too short )
I wish they had of thought outside the box a little and done something REALLY smart like make the deck about a half inch higher for a longer rod ( and reduce some of that side load on the piston )

Some people might be upset by this comment but I think the clone is the best thing to happen to small engines ever....
They took a great engine from Honda that was over priced and made it cheaper than a Briggs ( something Honda could not ever compete with ).
Now you have a cheap engine like a Briggs ( only cheaper ) but it has ball bearings, cast iron sleeve OHV and parts as cheap as dirt.

If you are the tinkering type you can fix these up and rebuild them and get many good years for very little money.
We never had it so good when it comes to re powering things.

Kohler clone:
Called a courage series engine.
Its Probably a Loncin product I think this because its flywheel is exactly the same as the Predator.
Briggs makes a clone too I had a real chuckle first time I saw it.

There are some very weird clones out there now with different bores and strokes, some you just can't get parts for.
Here is a good example ( often on sale no one seems to buy them )
It's a 180 cc clone ( what the heck were they doing using up extra parts from other engines???? )
http://www.princessauto.com/en/detai...ne/A-p8600926e

And this is another very strange clone I have not taken apart yet, but somehow they managed to get 223cc from a small block Honda.
This engine is a Champion under a sister brand name.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IUKKMDC/?tag=genergator-20
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  #77  
Old 08-10-2016, 05:38:55 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Just FYI the 79.5cc Preditor is made by Rato. Specifically it is a Rato R80. (It is enbossed inside the block.) Virtually identical to engine used by UST on their 1350W gen sold by Walmart. I've swapped a number of HF engines onto UST gens. Just requires swap of old crank into new engine. (Complete teardown of both engines as govenor gear won't clear piston skirt without head removal.... believe me I tried!) UST model runs a nylon cam.
Plus side is HF 79.5cc has real steel cam and motor as cheap as $90. Downside is no low oil shutoff on HF engine, requiring oil level check before every run.

Don't know about now, but the Predator 212cc engine -stand alone- used to come with an extra jet for high altitude in the box. Running at 5100 feet most stock gens tend to run rich.
Doc
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  #78  
Old 09-09-2016, 08:23:15 AM
Handyhiker1 Handyhiker1 is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I am one of the new guys around here but I just want to add my .02. I don't know much about a lot of the Asian clone generators but here is my experience so far.
My nephew has the red one from HF, I believe it is around the 3500w size. He lives a a semi remote part of PA. They have there share of power outages. He has used it for several years now and can't say enough good about it.
I have 2 of the Champion generators and have worked of several others. Every problem I have seen has been either neglect or owner stupidity. Don't get me wrong, I am sure these are not made for 24/7 operation. They are built to a price point and designed for the average consumer. They are light to medium duty and I would expect them to require regular maintenance.
Trying to compare these to the Onans built 30 years ago is really not comparing apples to apples. Onans were built for for heavy usage and in there day were expensive and heavy. These are light and cheap in comparison. The average person today doesn't want a 400 pound generator to try to move around and have a separate fuel tank to worry about.
I have 6 generators, 2 Onans, 2 Colemans and 2 Champions. These are all very different units for different uses but all good for there intended use. I will say one thing I do like about the Champions, parts are easy and cheap. I bought one new and 1 used with know problems. I would buy another one in a heart beat. The colemans are good but as of now, my least favorite. They are loud and not good on fuel. The one is 20 plus years old and never a problem. It did run for 3 days when our power went out and still runs great. The Onans are very well built and heavy duty for sure. Both from the 70s and if needed, they would both run and I expect no problems from them. The Champions are light, quiet and fuel efficient. For just stuff around the yard and to throw in my work truck, these are my favorite.
I do maintain them all and watch what I power with them not to excede the output. I expect all of them to last a long time.
Colemans, 2250watt, 3000watt
Champions, 1200watt, 3500watt
Onans, CCK5000, BGM5500
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Old 09-09-2016, 08:47:12 AM
armandh armandh is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

I got this free + $16 trailer rental and a 1/4 tank of gas
with only 1120 hrs on it, why mess with a clone?
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/attach...3&d=1472049673
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  #80  
Old 09-09-2016, 09:08:21 AM
Handyhiker1 Handyhiker1 is offline
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Default Re: Predator Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by armandh View Post
I got this free + $16 trailer rental and a 1/4 tank of gas
with only 1120 hrs on it, why mess with a clone?
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/attach...3&d=1472049673
For free that is awesome!! But try this, go ahead a throw that in the back of your truck by yourself and head out to a job site for the day. Then realize that they need the generator on the other side and your truck can't get there.
Again, generators are built for different needs, they produce power sure, but one size/style doesn't fit all.
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