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Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!


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  #81  
Old 01-10-2018, 09:54:26 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Wednesday Update:

Temps above freezing so JohnnyC went out to the workshop to play.

Tonight I modified the carrying frame (named from parts catalog) by adding wheels and adjusting it to allow the LK to be mounted 90 degrees from what was seen in yesterday's pictures.

Before showing the simple mod, I assume the frame is original to the LK which was manufactured in 1959. In the first picture below I show one of several carriage bolt heads that worn flat from decades of dragging the LK in its carrying frame. I assume it was a p.i.t.a. to move/slide since an LK weighs about 230 lbs. No way do I want to drag it around.

Simple solution is to mount wheels. I did not want to permanently alter to OEM Onan optional carrying frame by welding wheels to it, so I cut two equal lengths of square tubing and drilled holes in the tubing to match the holes in the carrying frame then bolted it all together with wheels as seen in the second picture. This hardly adds any additional weight and the tubing can easily be unbolted leaving the option carrying frame 100% original.

The third and fourth pictures show roughly how the LK will look mounted on the carrying frame in it's new mounting position and the wheels mounted. The LK is very stable now.

Maybe tomorrow or this weekend I will remove all the old paint on the carrying frame to get it ready for paint.

That's all folks for today

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #82  
Old 01-11-2018, 02:43:45 AM
Vanman Vanman is online now
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Looks like very nice work as usual, Johnny. Wish I lived close, I'd love to commission your services.

You may want to consider some wheels with brakes. Based on my experience with my single cylinder 1800 RPMers, they can be a little jiggly.
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  #83  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:45:09 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Looks like very nice work as usual, Johnny. Wish I lived close, I'd love to commission your services.

You may want to consider some wheels with brakes. Based on my experience with my single cylinder 1800 RPMers, they can be a little jiggly.
Thanks... You are right about considering wheels with brakes. I may look for a set. I too had experiences with an old Westinghouse generator on a cart that I built with wheels and it moved a bit if the ground was not level.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #84  
Old 01-11-2018, 04:00:48 PM
Vanman Vanman is online now
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Here's another LK mounted wonky on the frame!

https://m.ebay.com/itm/ONAN-vintage-...QAAOSwKwVaVuSH
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  #85  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:49:17 PM
rmchambers rmchambers is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

if you don't want to put brakes on the wheels you might weld a little foot pedal on the cross members that you press down with your foot and it puts a rubber padded leg down to take the weight off the wheels and stop it from moving.
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  #86  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:58:35 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Thursday Update:
This evening I finished rebuilding the carburetor. I did touch on the carburetor a week or two ago, but at that time I cleaned up the casting however I did not have a rebuild kit for it. I must say this was the easiest carburetor I've ever rebuilt (which means it won't work when I install it).

The carburetor is a very common Carter Model N and in my case a #20. From my research Carter Model N carburetors were very commonly used on Kohlers back in it's day and the rebuild kit is Kohler part# 1P25 757 01-S. The kit contains a gaskets, float needle and seat as well as the float pin and all fit perfectly. The rebuild kit can be purchased from any small engine repair center for pennies.

I don't think this was the original carburetor, but a replacement. On the carburetor casting the numbers "87" can be clearly seen (see 4th picture below). Does this mean 1987????? My LK was built in 1959. On my JB's carburetor and last two digits of the year is in its casting in a manner as seen with the LK's carburetor. Would anyone out here know for sure??? In addition the numbers "24645" is embedded in the carburetor's flange casting. I have no clue what that means. Any gurus out here that can decode those numbers?

Anyway, the needle adjustments are set as they were before the carburetor was disassembled. While cleaning the internals of the carburetor, it was not bad at all and the LK's motor ran perfectly before I tore it apart.


JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #87  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:40:44 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmchambers View Post
if you don't want to put brakes on the wheels you might weld a little foot pedal on the cross members that you press down with your foot and it puts a rubber padded leg down to take the weight off the wheels and stop it from moving.
Most likely I will follow Vanman's advise and install a set of wheels with brakes. It would be the easiest and cheapest solution other than chaining a boat anchor to the frame which would not be a bad idea and very different.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #88  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:47:20 AM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Johnny, both of my LK's use a Walbro LMG193 used in Spec E and above. I think yours is a spec B using carburetor part number 146-0131? The 900-0269 carburetor index crosses 146-0131 to a Walbro LMG189. So your carburetor may have been replaced. Then again, it is an "experimental model" so who knows what the factory did.
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  #89  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:26:00 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Johnny, both of my LK's use a Walbro LMG193 used in Spec E and above. I think yours is a spec B using carburetor part number 146-0131? The 900-0269 carburetor index crosses 146-0131 to a Walbro LMG189. So your carburetor may have been replaced. Then again, it is an "experimental model" so who knows what the factory did.
Thanks for the information. If it was replaced, it fits perfectly and works. Since there is an "87" stamped on the body of the carburetor as seen in my previous set of pictures, I think that the carburetor I got was made in 1987. Waiting for one of the smart guys here to confirm.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #90  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:09:30 AM
Handyhiker1 Handyhiker1 is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
Here's another LK mounted wonky on the frame!

https://m.ebay.com/itm/ONAN-vintage-...QAAOSwKwVaVuSH
That frame doesn't look like a factory one. There is wood mounted to the sides and then under the generator.
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  #91  
Old 01-12-2018, 10:35:24 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Johnny, both of my LK's use a Walbro LMG193 used in Spec E and above. I think yours is a spec B using carburetor part number 146-0131? The 900-0269 carburetor index crosses 146-0131 to a Walbro LMG189. So your carburetor may have been replaced. Then again, it is an "experimental model" so who knows what the factory did.
I am confused.... I see what you posted and I checked the carburetor part number in my parts manual and like you posted, it should be a 146-0131 if it has an electric choke which mine does for spec A thru D. As you know, my LK is a spec B. The parts manual I am looking at is 930-0221. In the same parts manual it also has a pictorial of the carburetor breakdown and it appears to be similar to my Carter Model N carburetor (see first picture below). The manual does not tell me if it is a Carter or Walbro. Maybe they are similar in appearance?

In my earlier postings on my carburetor, I thought it was a replacement maybe from 1987, but now I am 99.9999999999999999% sure it is the original 1959 carburetor. I went back to my pictures of the carburetor before I removed the non-OEM paint. What I seen was the original darker green metallic OEM paint in areas where the top layer of paint is chipped away. I attached several pictures below.

So, the question is why is there a Carter Model N carburetor on a spec B when it should be a Walbro? The build sheet does not mention anything about this even though it is an "experimental" LK. Does your Walbro appear to be very similar to a Carter Model N?? Can you snap several close ups of your Walbro and post here? As you can see, I love to track down the history of things.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #92  
Old 01-13-2018, 08:27:18 AM
MBB MBB is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

As you said earlier Johnny its an experimental model. Its not a regular production model so they used what they hoped, knew, or expected to work. Maybe they ran out of carbs and substituted this one. Onan substituted 12 wire gen ends on many units because they ran out.

Just my opinion.
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  #93  
Old 01-13-2018, 09:56:01 AM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyC View Post
So, the question is why is there a Carter Model N carburetor on a spec B when it should be a Walbro? The build sheet does not mention anything about this even though it is an "experimental" LK. Does your Walbro appear to be very similar to a Carter Model N?? Can you snap several close ups of your Walbro and post here? As you can see, I love to track down the history of things.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
I have two 2.5LK's, both with Walbro carburetors.

2.5LK-1R/30811N Date Code march, 1987 The carburetor has markings: LMG 189 5-87 C93

2.5LK-1R/10504J Date code April, 1975 The carburetor has markings: LMG 193 ?40 ?72

The pictures are from the Spec N utility truck model. I took many more pictures, if there is something specific you want to see, let me know.
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  #94  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:19:26 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
I have two 2.5LK's, both with Walbro carburetors.

2.5LK-1R/30811N Date Code march, 1987 The carburetor has markings: LMG 189 5-87 C93

2.5LK-1R/10504J Date code April, 1975 The carburetor has markings: LMG 193 ?40 ?72

The pictures are from the Spec N utility truck model. I took many more pictures, if there is something specific you want to see, let me know.
Your pictures are extremely helpful and have perfect detail that I was looking for.

Comparing your pictures with my Carter Model N they are very, very, very similar. If you need reading glasses and looked at both side by side without the reading glasses, you would think they are the same model carburetors. They appear to be swappable without any modifications to the carburetors and LKs.

How and why my LK ended up with a Carter instead of a Walbro when in fact the manual states it should be a Walbro is a mystery. Since the original paint was clearly seen and matched the original paint elsewhere on the LK I assume it was installed at the factory. Funny how the Carter Model N was very common on Kohlers as I seen from searches on the internet and I don't believe Kohlers used similar color Onan paint back in 1959.

Thanks agains for posting those pictures.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #95  
Old 01-13-2018, 11:16:13 AM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

I just wanted to post comparison pictures of Kevin's Walbro LMG-189 (or is it the Walbro LMG 193) next to the Carter Model N that is on my LK to show the similarities. The main difference between the carburetors is the Carter has an extra needle jet on the top of the carburetor's main body. The needle jet is referenced as a "Idle Jet and High Speed Adjustment", part # 143-0078. This kind of tells me it should be a Carter Model N since the Walbro equivalent carburetor does not have this needle jet?

Anyway, bottom line is it appears that the Walbro 189 and the Carter Model N #20 carburetors are interchangeable. As to what should have been production in the Spec B is a good question ----- Manual says Walbro, but the pictorial break down of the carburetor shows a Carter...

At this point maybe we are getting into the nitty details and should move on.

Thanks

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #96  
Old 01-13-2018, 11:31:02 AM
Kevin K Kevin K is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

It's nice to know a Carter N carburetor would be a good substitute. These Walbro LMG's have a very difficult to clean idle passage. The main jet was screwed into place, then a small hole was drilled from the idle passage into the main jet. The result is if the main jet is removed for cleaning, you will never be able to index the hole correctly when reassembled. The replacement main jets have an annular ring cut into the jet to eliminate this problem. I just cut an annular ring using a moto tool so I didn't have to buy a kit. The only parts that needed replacement were the two O rings.

What is the venturi diameter in the carter N carburetor? Could this be the reason your motor will not handle the full 2500 watts? The LMG189 has a diameter of approximately 0.630 to 0.650". Difficult to get a tool down in the throat without removing the carburetor.

I think you asked someone for a picture of the control box in another thread. This is a picture of my control box before I cleaned it up. Keep in mind I have a "utility truck" model that does not use the voltage regulator for battery charging. My other LK has the long thin control box.
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  #97  
Old 01-13-2018, 11:57:10 AM
gnucklehead gnucklehead is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

My 1964 spec-B LK sports a Carter-N.. I haven't had to clean the internals - not much to clean . Maybe it was a more expensive upgrade

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168499

Last edited by gnucklehead; 01-13-2018 at 12:08:17 PM.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:46:08 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
It's nice to know a Carter N carburetor would be a good substitute. These Walbro LMG's have a very difficult to clean idle passage. The main jet was screwed into place, then a small hole was drilled from the idle passage into the main jet. The result is if the main jet is removed for cleaning, you will never be able to index the hole correctly when reassembled. The replacement main jets have an annular ring cut into the jet to eliminate this problem. I just cut an annular ring using a moto tool so I didn't have to buy a kit. The only parts that needed replacement were the two O rings.

What is the venturi diameter in the carter N carburetor? Could this be the reason your motor will not handle the full 2500 watts? The LMG189 has a diameter of approximately 0.630 to 0.650". Difficult to get a tool down in the throat without removing the carburetor.

I think you asked someone for a picture of the control box in another thread. This is a picture of my control box before I cleaned it up. Keep in mind I have a "utility truck" model that does not use the voltage regulator for battery charging. My other LK has the long thin control box.
I am not sure what the venturi measures. I got the carburetor in my room and measuring tools are in the workshop. You may be right that it could be why I can only get 1700 watts and if I'm not mistaken there was a 1.7kW LK too. Maybe the difference between the 2kW and the 1.7kW models as for the motor was only the carburetor and they put a smaller carb meant for a 1.7kW on my 2KW model ?

As for the control box, yours looks much different. I will be ripping into the ontrol box maybe next month after I get the main body of the LK primed and painted.

JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #99  
Old 01-13-2018, 12:58:38 PM
JohnnyC JohnnyC is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnucklehead View Post
My 1964 spec-B LK sports a Carter-N.. I haven't had to clean the internals - not much to clean . Maybe it was a more expensive upgrade

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168499
Hmmmmmmm..... Although your 2LK has a Cater Model N, it is a little different. In the first picture below, it is a copy of your picture from the link you posted. The long needle screw shown by the arrow I drew is much thicker than my needle screw. The diameter of mine is about the thickness of a toothpick.

I need a BIG FAVOR. Look at my second picture below. Notice the number "20" in the red circle. What number is seen in your carburetor?? You will need to remove the air filter and open the choke to see the number. All Carter Model N's have a number. From what I learned many 8 to 10 hp motors using the Carter Model N carburetors will have a "28". I assume smaller motors will have a lesser number and ours fall into the 3 to 5 hp range. If you have a 2LK I am very interested to know what you got. Maybe my carburetor is undersized therefore I cannot get a full 2kW?????

Thanks!
JohnnyC
New Jersey
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  #100  
Old 01-13-2018, 02:42:24 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: Onan 2LK (experimental model) Has Come to Life!

Johnny, all this fiddle/ faddle carb stuff is the long way around.
Go old school.
Load it up, measure manifold vacuum at WOT.
It should be very low.
If it isn't, then engine could use more carb.
That is what we did with hot rods.
When engine has enough carburetion,
set A/F ratio.
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