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Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions


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  #11  
Old 12-10-2017, 07:04:00 PM
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

Jonny We don't have stupid questions on this site. If you knew the answer you would't be asking. So ask any question you need to. That is how you learn.
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:56:43 PM
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

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Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
...My calcs are a little better than the above estimation of GPH burn but do understand this is a big piece...
What is your estimate on propane usage, and how did you get it?

I based mine on the Onan gaseous fuel manual, interpolating between other similar-sized sets.
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:05:44 PM
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

The "Maxitrol" regulator can be used as a pressure regulator or as a "zero" regulator or "demand" regulator. It's counter-balanced with a spring on the underside of the diaphragm. (Under the cover with the four screws) which converts it to a "zero" regulator
The fuel mixture adjustment is the lock-nutted screw on the mixer.
Adjust the demand reg with line pressure applied, and adjust to zero flow.
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:25:26 PM
Jonny Hotnuts Jonny Hotnuts is offline
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

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Originally Posted by Wayne 440 View Post
I claim no expertise, but FYI- years ago my employer installed a 30kW Kohler and used 4 x 100 lb tanks as a fuel supply. The actual load was about 10kW, and the tanks would not vaporize an adequate volume below about 40 degrees.

My advice- consider liquid feed and a much larger tank arrangement.

Wayne,

This is a liquid propane feed system with thermal vaporizer. I havent hooked up the coolant lines (what heats the vaporizer) yet but only intended to test run for a few seconds.

-In the future the generator and tanks will be housed in an insulated 'generator house' that will have some level of heating. The generator and tanks should never get very cold.


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Jonny We don't have stupid questions on this site. If you knew the answer you would't be asking. So ask any question you need to. That is how you learn.
THanks Billy but Ill bet before its all said and done you may rethink this stance after the crap I can come up with. LOL

~JH

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Originally Posted by Jim McIntyre View Post
What is your estimate on propane usage, and how did you get it?

I based mine on the Onan gaseous fuel manual, interpolating between other similar-sized sets.


I calced it by my estimated 'high side average' of my usage @ 20K watts, needing ~40hp and consuming 400,000btu per hour. A 'bbq' tank (4.7g) has about 442,000 btu. This would mean at a 20% load the generator would run about an hour, maybe a little more.

-Am I way off?

~JH
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:24:16 PM
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

^ I don't know. I have decent confidence in my 14 GPH full load estimate. But, this being a turbocharged set, I'm not too sure about the no-load estimate. My estimate above might have been pessimistic. I don't see the consumption spec in any of the ENBA manuals...
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:40:32 PM
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

Jonny I have been helping people since 1975. There have been more than a few that made me want to. Beat my head on the wall. But I keep trying. Always will. Besides just when you think you have heard it all. Some one new comes along.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:45:24 PM
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Smile Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ulgydog56 View Post
maxietrol is a pressure regulater,nat gas runs at 3.3 to3.8 in equip normally in usa,check equipment,ratings,lp gas normally runs at 10 to 12 ins of water collium, regs are adjustable,but from 1 gas to another u normally change regulators or springs and possably jet or orface size,should be a kit for it,make sure its got to be right......
lp bbq tanks won,t work,set at diff pressure than 100,250,500#tanks,u would be changen tanks like a madman with that460 lol
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:21:28 AM
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post
....Now that shes running, how can I tell if its running healthy? Meaning if this was a gas engine I could check AFR/EGT or read plugs or listen to any knock to get an idea of engine health.
Some have mentioned that I may need to adjust mixture/jetting but how can you tell if any changes made are beneficial/detrimental?....
Are you saying you have access to an AFR meter? If so, it should have multiple fuels on it. Select LP and give it a check. Unfortunately, this check needs to be done at or very near full load. At full load, you'd want a lambda around .95~.96 for propane, or an LPG AFR of around 14.90~15.08. Adjust fueling with the power valve (see below.)

Seat of the pants method, again with full load, would be to turn the "power valve" adjustment on or near the mixer body, to "leaner", slowly, just until you hear the engine miss or falter, then slowly go back towards rich until smooth. You can also hook up a vacuum gauge while doing this and observe for the highest vacuum reading when slowly going back towards "rich." You just have to play with it a little by this method, until you're happy with it. If you shut it down hot, and do a rapid restart and it fires right off without backfiring or lighting some gas off in the muffler, you're close enough.

Make sure the plugs are set at 0.035", and timing is at 32 BTDC @ 1800 rpms.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:15:43 AM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

You can use any heated o2 sensor as an AFR tester. just place it in the exhaust (with no leaks and well away from the end of the tail pipe to prevent reversion readings) and read it with a good volt meter. Check the sensor specs but 1.5v & lambda rings a bell but it's been a while since I did this.

EDIT: some quick research shows that output is 0-1v, increasing as oxygen decreases (richer mixture) lambda @ ~0.45v.

Last edited by AngrySailor; 12-11-2017 at 04:23:22 AM. Reason: Correction
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:46:50 PM
Jonny Hotnuts Jonny Hotnuts is offline
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Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

Wow guys, thanks for the info. Ill need to go over it all once I get home from dumb work.

-Quick question:

Will the OEM NG setup run leaner or richer if these settings are maintained and propane is used?

Lets just say I have some bad experiences in the past with lean conditions on other stuff. While the experiences are too difficult to speak of, Ill bet you can understand where Im going!

I dont mind if its fatter, I just dont want to be on the other side of the coin!

Thanks again, Im a little overwhelmed with the good info on this odd project.

~JH
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