Generators and Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion > Onan Generators
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Onan Generators Restoring, operating and maintaining vintage Onan generators.

Onan Generators

Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions


this thread has 65 replies and has been viewed 2792 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-12-2017, 05:16:51 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is online now
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 5,963
Thanks: 363
Thanked 5,044 Times in 2,425 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Thompson View Post
Looking at the rating tag, it is rated at 300 amps 120/240 3 phase. It is rated 347 amps 120/240 single phase (last box, lower right of tag). It looks like a little more than 66 KW in single phase. What am I misinterpreting here?
Onan often derates the single phase kW capability of their 3 phase sets considerably more than the laws of physics dictate. I don't know why - but I do know that a generator end that is capable of 240v/347A driven by a turbocharged 460 Ford will typically carry considerably more than 66kW of load at unity power factor.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #32  
Old 12-12-2017, 05:30:08 PM
Jonny Hotnuts Jonny Hotnuts is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Corbett, Oregon, USA
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by armandh View Post
propane is a way richer fuel than NG

and YES you must adjust for it.

a generator that is 17.5 KW on gasoline
is 16 on propane 15 on NG

the different BTU density is substantial about 7% greater in your case


I read through the ENBA manual and its recommendations for adjusting mix is under full load.

Ok, guys here is a BS question, I know I shouldnt ask but Im gonna:

-I have no prob in installing an O2 bung/sensor in the exhaust however this will be a little ways down the road; there is no real way I can do a 'sniffer' O2 setup as the muffler has no pipe distance and back pulses will contaminate the reading. When I install a bung it will be within 8" of the turbine outlet and pre muffler.
We can say the generator will be running fat on propane with the NG setup; this I get. IN THE MEANTIME is there a 'ball park' adjustment I can do to the mix to get it running 'safer'? (*take note that I do not know if unscrewing the jet at the base of the mixer translates into leaner or richer). Is it possible to say "loosen the jam, and unscrew (or screw in) the mix adjustment a full turn (or whatever) and re-secure the jam. I understand all these engines are different (and how identical engines can have different settings between them just because of no real explainable reason). I am not looking for perfection, only to get it to a place where there isnt a concern that I will burn a valve.


Thanks!

~JH

Also, I am including a garage shot of a couple old trucks of mine for no reason:



---------- Post added at 04:30:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27:13 PM ----------



(*pic didnt show in previous post)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jonny Hotnuts For This Post:
  #33  
Old 12-12-2017, 06:09:22 PM
Sprbob99 Sprbob99 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon
Posts: 5
Thanks: 7
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

I have a 20 kw with a 4 cylandar ford.
I got it with the same by setup. The Marlow was pointed up. I turned it over and ran lp.
You have twice the consumption as I do.
Off a 500 gal tank I am using a first stage reg to reduce to 10lb. Then through a second stage reg to reduce to a 9-13 water column. It ran rich so I adjusted the air fuel mixture to lean it out and it runs great..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-12-2017, 06:31:55 PM
Jim McIntyre's Avatar
Jim McIntyre Jim McIntyre is online now
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Mooresville, Indiana, USA
Posts: 4,079
Thanks: 698
Thanked 2,242 Times in 1,300 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to propane questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Thompson View Post
Looking at the rating tag, it is rated at 300 amps 120/240 3 phase. It is rated 347 amps 120/240 single phase (last box, lower right of tag). It looks like a little more than 66 KW in single phase. What am I misinterpreting here?
The power factor. It's rated at 0.8 PF (even in single phase) so that works out to 347A at 240V, which is 83 kVA.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jim McIntyre For This Post:
  #35  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:03:20 PM
Jonny Hotnuts Jonny Hotnuts is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Corbett, Oregon, USA
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions



I took a closer look at the mixer. It appears the only adjustable element is this screw on the backside of the mixer. Can someone confirm if this is in fact the mix control.



This on the front side does not appear to be adjustable.

.

OT III



Pic of the ATS

Also....

I know its going to use a lot of gas, I am not worried about it in the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWood View Post

Make sure the plugs are set at 0.035", and timing is at 32 BTDC @ 1800 rpms.
Thoughts on going a number colder on the plugs?

~JH
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:08:40 PM
EricWood's Avatar
EricWood EricWood is online now
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Concord, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1,921
Thanks: 239
Thanked 1,412 Times in 761 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

In your second picture in post 35 above, that one that you thought might not be adjustable, is in fact, the power valve. See the embossed "R" next to it? There is a corresponding "L" on the other side. This is a less than 1/2-turn adjusting valve. It don't take much movement to make a change when at full load.

Posting a photo of the style of exhaust adapter I use withe LM2 meter's wideband O2 sensor; it gets in the pipe about 5-6 inches, and at full load, you are not going to have the diluted reading you think you might.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LM2_exhaust adapter.png
Views:	29
Size:	38.6 KB
ID:	298212  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to EricWood For This Post:
  #37  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:18:43 PM
EricWood's Avatar
EricWood EricWood is online now
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Concord, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1,921
Thanks: 239
Thanked 1,412 Times in 761 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

As for the spark plugs, I'd recommend just staying with the original heat range. I've seen many stand-by gassers with 30 year old plugs in them still purr like a kitten. Pull the plugs for inspection. Are the fairly clean/lightly tanned, or a dull gray? Are the back cylinders partially oil-carbon fouled? If so, may need new valve seals. Treat it to a new set of plugs if they're still original, then recheck them after about 20 hours or so, to see how they look. Should still be pretty white at that point yet.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:22:36 PM
len k len k is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manchester, New Hampshire
Posts: 16,040
Thanks: 444
Thanked 5,808 Times in 4,220 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

On chevys with fouled plugs in rear we just put couple numbers hotter plug in cylinders that had fouled plugs., tends to burn it off. Never had problems, took one car out to ~ 280k before frame got rusty, 5.0L V8 engine was tired but still good.

Last edited by len k; 12-13-2017 at 08:47:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:44:14 AM
AngrySailor AngrySailor is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: West Prince, Prince Edward Isand, Canada
Posts: 893
Thanks: 331
Thanked 577 Times in 321 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

Love the trucks! Yours looks a like '69-71 c-10... attached is my '68 910 which is now my fathers summer ride. It was my daily until it was rear ended by a drunk and needed a box and frame The '67 biscayne is now my summer car. It sat since '81 when the original owner stopped driving it at about 47,000 miles. He logged every fill up, last was 119th tank of gas is '81 then it sat till this spring when I finally plated it again. It's first trip was 1200 miles to my new place. Made it with no issues
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0109.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	282.7 KB
ID:	298223  
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:57:43 AM
PopsGarage PopsGarage is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Barnegat, New Jersey
Posts: 589
Thanks: 199
Thanked 288 Times in 218 Posts
Default Re: Genset 100kw ENBA NG to Propane Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Hotnuts View Post


I read through the ENBA manual and its recommendations for adjusting mix is under full load.

Ok, guys here is a BS question, I know I shouldnt ask but Im gonna:

-I have no prob in installing an O2 bung/sensor in the exhaust however this will be a little ways down the road; there is no real way I can do a 'sniffer' O2 setup as the muffler has no pipe distance and back pulses will contaminate the reading. When I install a bung it will be within 8" of the turbine outlet and pre muffler.
We can say the generator will be running fat on propane with the NG setup; this I get. IN THE MEANTIME is there a 'ball park' adjustment I can do to the mix to get it running 'safer'? (*take note that I do not know if unscrewing the jet at the base of the mixer translates into leaner or richer). Is it possible to say "loosen the jam, and unscrew (or screw in) the mix adjustment a full turn (or whatever) and re-secure the jam. I understand all these engines are different (and how identical engines can have different settings between them just because of no real explainable reason). I am not looking for perfection, only to get it to a place where there isnt a concern that I will burn a valve.


Thanks!

~JH

Also, I am including a garage shot of a couple old trucks of mine for no reason:



---------- Post added at 04:30:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27:13 PM ----------



(*pic didnt show in previous post)
Jim, nice trucks, the adjustment in the photo is a butterfly valve 1/4 turn from wide open to shut off there might be a R and L on the casting for rich and lean settings..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Onan Microlite 2.5 Genset Propane Generator RMoe Onan Generators 2 01-19-2016 05:04:38 PM
A 1983 1 KW Onan genset on Propane analog man Onan Generators 3 11-15-2010 01:45:19 AM
30RZGB Gas Propane Genset Trouble Joe Batts Kohler Generators 3 09-07-2010 03:05:53 PM
Kurz & Root 100kw genset Fatboy Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 18 12-18-2007 11:32:18 PM
HELP, Propane genset delemma Gary Koleno Onan Generators 14 11-22-2004 01:58:57 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:48:53 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277