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Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets MEP Mobile Electric Power, APU Auxiliary Power Unit and other military surplus generators.

Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets

Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset


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  #11  
Old 12-05-2015, 04:48:36 PM
twistedhippy twistedhippy is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

I have the same one. Here is a pic of the power leads and such. I'm also fishing for info, not only the gen but for any help on how to set the governor. As i have been running it (think it has been a bit) the rpms have been climbing. My Hz are off the chart and about 265v with it turned down. If someone knows a thread for the Hercules motor in it that would be great.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2015, 04:51:20 PM
twistedhippy twistedhippy is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

Here is the tag from the motor
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2015, 07:01:10 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

that is a civil defense contract, so it doesn't show up as a mil tech manual, but its ad simpleas a brick.

three phase, but 208/125y. output is via the four terminals at the panel. L1 through L3 are hot, L0 is neutral. you'll get 125 v from any terminal to L0, and 208 between any hots.
for single phase, connect any two hots up your mains, connect L0 to neutral, and you'll have single phase.

it is conservatively rated. i ran twistedhippy's at 14kw of single phase load for ten hours with no appreciable temperature rise.

wiring diagram is on inside of left hand door.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2015, 10:46:40 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

The engine is a Hercules JXC- four cylinder industrial flathead engine. Compare it to ANY Hercules flathead four or six, and you'll see that it's functionally identical with the only difference being cylinder quantity and size. A JXD, QXC, ZXB... any Herc flathead manual will show you what the Herky mill looks like inside, and how to do what little maintenance they require.

It has an adjustable oil pressure relief, which rarely needs adjustment, but spec for pressure adjustment assumes non-multi-vis oil of the early '50's, and pressure spec is on the engine's ID tag. The oil filter is a partial-flow bypass type system, if you pull the element out and rinse it off carefully, a NAPA guy will have the right one. There may be a WIX number written on Hippy's filter housing from the last time I changed it.

The carbeurator is a downdraft which isn't unusual, but isn't as common for finding kits for like the updraft Zenith and Marvel-Scheblers. Hippy's has a secondary throttle stop control which I don't see a reason for, but K&R built it that way... when running the generator, don't use that throttle, don't even hook it up, as the linkage will stick and override the governor's function.

IIRC The distributor is either a Delco-Remy or Prestolite, condenser, coil, on 6v battery. The engine's generator recharges the battery. These are easily converted to 12v starting, and the starter readily cranks on 12v with no issues, however, the battery charging generator and some of the gauges (fuel, at least) and sending units would need to be changed to make it work properly. Oil pressure, engine temperature are mechanical, and the generator gauges are not affected by electrical system. If one wishes to convert to 12v, rather than fuss with the 6v generator, remove it and install a one-wire alternator (35A is plenty big), or connect a good battery charger to the main generator output and wire it to the battery.

The generator's regulator is electromechanical unit by REGOHM, and located inside the control panel, on the flip-down door. Since it's mechanical, the door must be in the upright-and-locked position for it to operate properly... and of course, the control switch must be in the AUTO position. REGOHM is still in business, but these gadgets are basically hand-built-to-order now, and they rarely fail in such a way that one need to replace them, but if someone has the inclination to order, they have an inclination to tack a healthy price on it. They're very simple inside- an electromagnet connected to the generator's output pulls against a shorting bar which moves up a ramp, and as the shorting bar moves up the ramp, it shorts contacts which insert more resistance in series with the generator's field winding, thus lowering output voltage. As voltage falls, the shorting bar drops down, removing resistance (shunting the resistance 'tree' ), increasing field current, and raising output voltage.

Governed speed determines output frequency, this generator is a four-pole, so it creates two complete cycles of output for every rotation of crankshaft... or 30 rotation per second. To yield 60hz, the engine governor mantains 1800rpm. This was not designed for a high-precision frequency output- with no load, you'll see about 61-62hz, and with full load, around 59hz. Because of the physics of generation, the armature's speed ALSO affects voltage... so if you're running at 63hz, output voltage will be high, and at 57, it will be low.

This generator's meters are switchable, so one can independantly read each phase. The switch on Hippy's unit was stuck, and I never unstuck it becausue they're rarely necessary. When properly set, the 200v range WILL indicate 210 or so when running at proper speed, with proper regulator setting. The regulation circuit has TWO sides... the AUTO side (where the REGOM manages output) and the MANUAL side (where the REGOHM is bypassed, and the operator manually controls it). It should NOT need to be set at max in EITHER state to get to 208v output... but the unit WILL need to be adequately warmed up in order to make proper output.

Again, it's a 208/125Y machine- Measure between any of L1, L2, or L3, and you'll see around 208v, and from L1, 2, or 3 to L0, and you'll see 125v. For a residential backup system, connect L0 to your transfer switch neutral lead, and connect any two of L1, L2, or L3 to your service hot leads. Rotating the METER knob will read voltages of each lead based on the switch position, and the 200v scale will always show across just L1 and L3.

Using two legs (let's say L1 and L3) and neutral (L0), Your house equipment running on 120, will see 125v. Your house equipment running on 240 will see 208. IF you crank the output voltage up to see 240v output, your phase-to-neutral voltages will be around 140v. While most of your modern home electronics use switching supplies that will be fine at 140, some things... like your furnace blower, fridge, or incandescent lamps, will not be so happy.

When the generator windings and armature are cold, they'll develop higher voltage than they will once warm. When the engine is cold, the oil will be thick, so oil pressure will be higher.

The governor is a centrifugal unit of Hoof-Pierce or similiar design. I don't recall an ID tag on Hippy's machine, but it's gear driven off the engine drive system, and adjustable linkage length and spring to change both gain and governed speed. Speed adjustment by spring, and gain by linkage. Oil thickness will tend to make the governor 'lazy', so when cold, they will not govern accurately, so warm the engine thoroughly, and then apply a sensible load prior to attempting any governor, throttle, or carbeurator adjustments.

Be advised, that adjusting the governor on a generating plant is an arduous lesson for the newbie- you'll start by getting the engine started and warmed up, then running somewhere in the ballpark, connect up some electric heaters to load it to about 3kw, then get the engine timing and fuel mixture adjustments dialed in, then get the loaded running speed right, then cut the load on and off and adjust the linkage to get gain and response solid. Do NOT use a tachometer to adjust the govnernance- use a digital voltmeter with frequency reading capability... and if the frequency indication isn't stable, clean the generator brushes and apply a little load (500w heater, etc), as dirty brushes under no load will generate hash noise that some meters don't like.

I had Hippy's running my neighbor's house as backup service for 10 years, and it would run solid at 59.5hz under load of his well, furnace, lighting, TV, and dishwasher, and with the load shut off, run up to about 62hz. Before setting it up for him, I intentionally tested it by heavily loading just two leads to overload, and monitoring generator winding temperature and fuel consumption, and it did fine. IIRC, it consumed just under 2 gal/hr at that load level, and a bit above a half gallon an hour at no load. With gasoline being about 115kbtu per gallon, that sounds about right.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2015, 12:20:09 PM
wa5moe wa5moe is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

Wow, thanks to both of you on this one! The engine tag helps allot because mine is missing on this machine. I figured the engine was pretty generic because it's simple and beyond any detailed serious maintenance it will be pretty much like my L4-134 and Continental engines.

dkamp, thanks so much for the detailed info on the generator itself. It answers allot of the questions I had about the capability of the machine that only the evidently non-existant manual would have. One question I did have was whether they brought out the other ends of the field windings of the generator into some sort of box mounted elsewhere on the machine, like they sometimes do on other machines. My Onan has a jumper lead box for this kind of thing.

BTW, on the subject of contacting Kurz&Root, I did find their number (203) 393-9304 and called them. They are now in business of only servicing the existing machines, not selling them. I was told to call their guru on these machines, Bob Garrett. He is a nice guy and was helpful but has no manual info at all. He can be contacted at: bob.garrett@afconproducts.com
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  #16  
Old 12-13-2015, 09:25:45 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

The FIELD leads come out of the gen head and up to the Reg0hm regulator unit behind the control panel. Your pictures suggest that you found the two small knobs at the top of the control panel.... For those that don't know, to open this panel, just turn the knobs, and the latch tabs will loosen and swing away, allowing you to flip the gauge panel out and down.

The RegOhm unit is the box on the right hand side. that's Regulator Equipment Corp out of Paterson, NJ... now called Electric Regulator Corp.

Here's a dandy little manual that'll help clarify how the gadget works:

http://www.electricregulator.com/pdf...2004-10-01.pdf

Now, look at the picture of your panel above...

This is totally from memory, so correct me if your labelling says otherwise:

The LARGE diameter wirewound potentiometer (lower right of panel_) is used to control field current in MANUAL mode.
The SMALL diameter (upper left of panel) adjusts the RegOhm a little to allow you to trim the AUTOMATIC regulation.

The AUTO-MANUAL switch chooses 'tween manual adjustment, and the RegOhm's operation.

Big three-phase breaker in the middle... TOP connections are coming from the generator head... when she's running, these are ALWAYS LIVE. Bottom is outputs... in original fashion, they went to the terminals on the front of the panel, and I never did figure out why they'd bring 208/125Y hots to terminals RIGHT ON THE PANEL FACE. I disconnected those terminals, and instead, wired my LOAD to the back of the breaker, so that nobody would touch those and zap-crap out'a themselves.

Behind the panel, inside the case, on right hand side, are three toroidal transformers. One for each phase, with each phase of HOT passing through the center prior to going to the breaker. the toroidal-transformer's output goes to the stacked rotary switch, and selected output accordingly to go to the CURRENT meter. I believe they wired it so that another wire went from the appropriate pole to the voltmeter (so you could measure voltage on each individual phase)... but they had it indicated to just use two phases on the diagram... The vibrating reed frequency meter sampled off of just two phases, because the other would be the same anyway... (if not, you've got really, really, really, really bad problems, and frequency would be irrelevant).

Hippy- I just realized that I had yours hooked up for testing a 230V Delta machine... so when you test the voltage on your output cable, you're gonna see 240ish across each pair of leads... disconnect the WHITE lead from the center of the circuit breaker and connect it to the lead marked T0... That's the one that's taped off hanging BEHIND the panel... and you should see 120-130 from each lead to neutral, and 208-240ish across the two hots.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2015, 07:37:17 PM
twistedhippy twistedhippy is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

The only number on the oil filter is NAPA 1001
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2015, 10:35:14 PM
RETCPO RETCPO is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

Your oil filter
http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/51001.html
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2015, 04:30:10 PM
wa5moe wa5moe is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

dkamp, thanks for all the info, you hit it from memory spot-on. I want to use this for my house so is there a happy middle ground for the 120-130v, 208-240v operation without smoking 120 and 240v appliances? Also, what would be the safe AC current limits capability on each leg in single phase, like I want to run it. ...............tnx, Mike.
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:51:19 PM
twistedhippy twistedhippy is offline
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Default Re: Kurz & Root 286A4-2480N 15 KVA genset

Thanks for the link to the oil filter. I still have a problem with creeping rpm. After rectifying my "noobyisim" back to the way it was when we chained it to the tree and pulled the trailer out from under it on the (Work of art) skids Dave made for it, I haven't changed the oil yet but when I pulled the filter it looked good for now, cleaned the air filter, filled it up new, fixed OE fuel pump, and let it run. I have ran about 8-10 gal through it. I started it up let it run 1/2 h oil psi spot on, temp good, I tacked it off the crank at 2345 +/- 1, that's a bit out of the ballpark I think, used the governor and tack brought it down to get it close, then use the frequency"harmonica" and governor. It was at 1851 +/-1, 208ish volts and the frequency as stated above, voltage off all leads right. All good , shut it down. The next day did a cold hand crank start, WOW did that go good at 35!! (first time ever doing that"noobism"), let it run 1/2 hr frequency"harmonica" low readjust governor. All good Next day run 45 min start to have a creep. Volts rising ,frequency rising. I don"t want to hook it up to a load yet. I have talked to a few about this some seem to think a air leak after carb leaning out mix to cause this. Any other ideas why rpm creep? I looked on the interwebs for info for this motor found nothing, I'd guess it has points, right, what is the gap. plug gap, timing, what ever, oil quantity, found nothing
See Ya Mason
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