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Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant


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  #151  
Old 11-14-2017, 05:13:43 PM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

In my post 149 I neglected to include the very first page of the section describing the magneciter because it reproduced cleanly in the B & W copy. So find the first page attached.

If anyone who is somewhat familiar with electrical circuits wants a free less than superior B & W copy of this Onan JB marketing brochure from the 60's just provide me your email address and I will also include as a second attachment those three pages shown in post 149 that were cut off when I made a home made copy of the document. Seriously, it explains in simple easy to understand terms how the Magneciter works as well as showing the internal features of the JB engine design.

My JB continues to perform as specified now coming up on 48 years. They do not build them like that anymore. I tell you all the best thing I did to prolong the use of my JB was simply to run it on natural gas, the oil discipline and locate it in a dry environment.
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Last edited by Leon N.; 11-15-2017 at 10:25:51 AM. Reason: More info
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  #152  
Old 11-17-2017, 05:17:41 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

Interesting side story of another use for saturable reactors: They were used to switch 15kz "RF" carrier for morse code communications across Atlantic ocean in pre-vacuum tube days.
Post 8-9 and 14 of https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173422
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Last edited by len k; 11-17-2017 at 06:01:41 PM.
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  #153  
Old 11-22-2017, 12:39:17 AM
nothingbutdarts nothingbutdarts is offline
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

JoeE,

Any recent luck on getting output from this set?
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  #154  
Old 11-22-2017, 01:48:04 AM
labans labans is offline
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

I have a 6.5NHD commercial propane unit that I need to mount in the back of my Dodge 3500 Dually so that I can power my travel trailer.
I am wondering if anyone has any ideas or even better any plans?
My idea is to put it on a frame that gives access below for oil changes
and put that frame on slide rails so that I can vent the engine heat outdoors
instead of inside the camper shell. I also plan to cut a hole in the bed and run the exhaust pipe down underneath the bed where I will mount a nice large silencer.
Love to get some feedback!!
Oh, I also have a 3CR which is not converted (yet) and would have preferred to mount it in the back of the Dodge but, damn it must weigh twice as much as the NHD!!!
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  #155  
Old 11-22-2017, 09:07:24 AM
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

^ might be best to start your own thread on that project...
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  #156  
Old 12-02-2017, 06:38:28 PM
JoeE. JoeE. is offline
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

Well, I finally did something... I mounted the fuel pump block off plate on the side of the block.
I made it out of quarter inch aluminum.

I also got the fuel pump hooked up, temporarily, and started the engine.

I don't know if it's right or not, but I can feel the pump pulsating even when the bowl must be full... This is the Facet 1/2# to 4# capacity pump... I don't know if you're supposed to be able to regulate it in any form or fashion to make it only put out a half of a pound or up to four pounds pressure... I don't understand how they can classify it between 1/2 and 4 lb if there's no way to adjust it.

Anyway, it's on there and it works.
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  #157  
Old 12-30-2017, 12:15:41 AM
JoeE. JoeE. is offline
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Ok, I'm back after a month or two of ignoring that JB.

In the interim, I'd bid on a 15kw JC, and didn't bid enough, so I sulked back into the shop and sat around and thought about what I needed to do to get this show back on the road.

To keep you from having to go read back through all the previous posts, I will recap.

Gen. ran perfect, and all was well til I installed a new battery backwards and messed up something. Engine runs fine, still, but no battery charge and no electric output.

I've checked the individual components of the rectifiers, the resistors, the rotor and stator windings... nothing seemed to be amiss.

Today, I went to the shop, built a fire (20º here) and sat there looking back over the schematics and trying to remember how everything works on this... kind of a refresher course.

Previously, I was informed that maybe the "revolving field" had lost it's residual magnetism because of the reversed polarity incident. Possibly, also, the two Gate Reactor coils may have suffered the same fate and could possibly need flashed.

Questions I need to ask:

1.] What voltage would be adequate to flash those coils, to get their polarity back right with the world? I'm able to come up with up to 48vdc for battery power in increments of 2 volts.

2.] Using the parts drawing, I show you 3 different coils. Not sure the voltage control needs flashed, but for sure the other two would.
So, there are 4 leads coming out of each. A pair for the gate winding, a pair for the control winding in both coils.

I can follow the schematic, I'm just not sure which terminal to apply positive and which to apply negative... I'm hoping you can look at the mag. wiring schematic and decipher that. My big problem is while the schematic may show, for example, that the C1 wire from a coil terminates on the "+" plate of the rectifier... I can't decide if the "+" is feeding the windings in the coil, or the output of the coil is going through the rectifier... That's what has me stymied.

3.] Would control and gate BOTH need flashed? Would I flash both concurrently?

I realize I ask some complicated questions and make big, long explanations asking them, and I probably set here and overcomplicate things... but those are all the thoughts that go through my mind while I'm looking at this thing.

I called Powertronics and inquired about the parts I'd need to change this thing to solid state excitation... about $650 dollars worth (twice what I paid for the gen. in the first place ), and after I looked at the wiring schematic for that, and read some of the process I'd have to go through to set it up.. I was a little intimidated...

I was under the impression that it would be "plug and play", but it doesn't seem to be.. am I overcomplicating that process, too?
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Old 12-30-2017, 01:53:13 AM
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

Here's an exploded view.. that I neglected to put in the previous comment...
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  #159  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:56:50 AM
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

Post the wiring diagram that applies to your set. Only you can do this with the certainty we need. I read back over the whole thread, and still can't be sure.

If you want to get maximal benefit from the Onan Consultation Team here, it'd be best if we were all, literally, on the same page regarding the wiring diagram.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, even when we all see the same wiring diagram, you'll hear different advice from each person here. Leon, for example, is of the mind that you need to remagnetize the cores of your exciter. So, if you want to go down that path, engage only Leon in that dialog.

I'm of the mind that there's something screwed up in your auto-flashing circuit. But it's annoying, because I can't be certain about the wiring diagram in play here (some sets don't have auto flashing). Generally, my approach is to somehow energize the field, and see what AC output you get. If the AC looks good at that point, you now the generator field, slip rings, brushes and stator are OK/ They are generally pretty robust. BUT, you already did a 6V lantern battery test, as I recall, and the result of that showed no AC, so I'm puzzled as to why you think that you need to remagnetize the cores of your exciter reactors. I also question whether the 6V lantern battery test was valid.

Does the engine run now? (i.e. fuel pump issue all sorted out?)
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:00:51 PM
Leon N. Leon N. is offline
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Default Re: Building a "Mount" for the Onan Power Plant

I have been following your magneciter/exciter problem with interest. I do not profess to be an expert but in reading the description of how the magneciter works and looking at the diagram 625A631 coupled with my engineering experience I would say the following:

1) On each of the two gate reactors, A & B there are six leads. Identify the pair labeled as C1 & C2 and note the + polarity dot identifies terminal C1 on each gate reactor. This is the gate control circuit and is driven from the rectifier bridge. Each gate reactor control winding, to quote Onan; " can act to de-magnetize (or reset) the saturable reactor cores after they have been saturated by line current in the output windings".

1a) The amount of control current required is handled by the regulator. The regulator consists of a saturating reactor (consisting of a toroid coil with only ONE WINDING), a rectifier bridge circuit and connections to the control windings of the two saturable reactors in the exciter circuit.

2) Onan says the revolving field, i.e., the rotor draws 10 amperes @ 40 VDC at full load. The 40 volts would appear across the two brushes/slip rings (F1 & F2) when operating correctly at FL.

3) The next question I have is how much voltage/current and for how long to apply across each gate reactor control winding? Also not sure if you have to also reset the "S" winding on each gate reactor? Have to study the exciter a bit more.

4) What I would suggest is the refer to your exciter wiring diagram, 625A631, and locate the "control" winding on each of the two large saturable core reactors. and measure the dc resistance of the winding. Lets say for example, it is 5 ohms. Then I would apply (at your own risk) enough DC battery voltage to briefly push 5 amperes at the correct polarity through each gate reactor control winding just briefly by touching the leads. DO not leave on or you may overheat the winding. This hopefully will reset the core polarity IAW the dot on the winding. So 5 ohns x 5 amps requires 25 volts. You could try less if more convenient. Not sure what it takes to reset the cores.

Anyways, I guess you have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Keep in touch. Good Luck.
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