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Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons


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  #1  
Old 07-02-2015, 10:24:11 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

I am looking for a possible replacement piston to install in an early teens 4 cylinder Wisconsin Model M "T" head engine. This engine is no little toy, it has a 5-3/4" Bore and a 7" stroke. According to the ALAM HP calculation, it is a true 60 hp engine. It needs a full rebuild. Before I go to the expense of casting pistons, I thought I would check here. I understand that some models of Fairbanks has the same bore, 5-3/4", so maybe pistons can be sourced. I do have one piston that I can measure the compression height if we come up with a potential piston. Thanks in advance for your time to respond.
Alan Dewsnup
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:23:36 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

5 3/4" would be the FM ZC 208. Pistons are available but a bit pricy. What is the distance from the wrist pin center to the top of the piston (compression height)? Also, wrist pin diameter? There also may other options.
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Old 07-03-2015, 02:49:15 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hello and Thanks for your taking time to reply to my Wisconsin piston need. I measured the original cast iron piston and this is what I got:

Wrist Pin OD: 1-7/16"
Comp. Height: 3-1/2" (center to top of piston)
Ring Configuration: 4 ring (no oil ring on skirt)

I will try to attach a couple of pictures of the piston for you evaluation.

Al
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:01:17 PM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

That one doesn't look like it's too bad... is it damaged somewhere?
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Old 07-05-2015, 10:45:10 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hello DCAMP, Sadly yes it does have damage that makes in very unsuitable for using again. Then that makes it so I would change them all out for balance, etc. The problem is a hairline crack around one of the wrist pin bosses. I don't think you can see it in the photo I provided. I will try to get another picture and post it also. Egge is always an option, but am hoping to run down another alternative source and maybe save a bit on the end cost.
Alan

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------

**NOTE** I just looked at my side view of the damaged piston, look closely around the circumference of the wrist pin port and you will see the hairline fracture.
Al
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Old 07-05-2015, 01:31:57 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

That is quite a crack, I'd say you are smart to not use it. Another thing to keep in mind is weight. A different piston paired with a stock may throw you out of ballance.

I'll measure up a 208 when I get to work Monday and give you some dimensions. The Arrow C66 has a 5 3/4" too.
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:27:14 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hello, I checked with the fellow over at Arrow Industries. The compression height on the Arrow C66 is 4.5, about 1" to tall to work for me. Have you had a chance to see if the Fairbanks 208 has a close comp. height? I also heard that one or two of the big Cat gas engines may have a 5-3/4" piston.
Alan
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:15:45 AM
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hey Allan I checked the 3304/3306 Cat gas pistons.....no go they are only 4.67" diameter
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:44:16 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hello Doug,
I do not have any piston charts. Do yo have access to a chart that may give me an idea if any pistons, at all, are available that could be reworked and used in the Wisconsin 4 cylinder I have? Not a lot of 5-3/4" pistons are used anymore. It may be that I will need to wrap this original piston I have and have a set of investment pistons cast up.
Alan

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------

Second thought Doug...... Does your Cat information give the wrist pin and compression height? I also have an old G-30 Farmall that I would like to put some oversized pistons in. The Cat. piston you mention may be something to evaluate for that project. I assume that the Cat Gas pistons are aluminum?
Alan

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 AM ----------

Third thought....that would be F-30 not G-30. My finger didn't mind me!
Al
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:13:30 PM
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Doug Waggonner Doug Waggonner is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

No I'm sorry, I do not. but yes the Cat gas pistons are alum.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:26:05 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Sigh---remembered a couple bearing etc catalogs did list b/s and ring catalogs list bore;
(1) 86 FED MOG BRNG (my latest) find:
Cat 53/4x8 engine/s in 4, 6, 8, 12 cyl's (probably same piston)
IHC 53/4x7 tractor engine--looks like D24, D-1091, UD-1091, UDT-1091 (D=diesel, U=Power unit, UDT T=turbo???
John Deere 53/4x8 "R" tractor??
Wauk 53/4x61/2 Believe the 6-WAL series; Wauk Eng Hist Soc (wehs.net) can advise if still in prod or if has any other 53/4s..(an earlier WS has 4+ comp dist per an older catalog) (no comp dist in the bearing catalog)
(2) 36 engine parts catalog has:
Cont H24 4cyl---("H"s were Ind'l engines, series ran up to 61/2 bore)
Herc GXE, HXE, HWK...all (Cont'l, Hercs) NLA 36 thru that company, comp dist blank in catalog)...
Will scrounge around more as time/inclination admits...with sympathy, Bud
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:45:16 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hello Bud,
Thanks once again for scouting your literature. You have given me a few more potential places to look to see if I can find an affordable remedy for my piston needs.
Al
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:10:09 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Sorry but I was covered up today and didn't get a chance to check the piston. I'll try in the am.
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:40:19 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

I wish I could think of these things all at the same time---
Go to oldmarineengine.com and contact Richard Durgee---he has a monumental knowledge of marine engines, and
(1) may be able to rattle off some marine 53/4s readily available (LOTS of marine engines run to larger bores)...
(2) better yet, he will probably know which piston companies would be likely to have some 53/4s on the shelf, to try to match, and
(3) even better, will have heard/seen years of comments re' which piston fabricators are relatively reasonable and reliable...
(4) and can advise which oldmarineengine forum/s to post on if he feels it may be helpful...
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Old 07-07-2015, 09:52:29 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Hall Scott used a lot of 5-3/4" bore pistons, 5-3/4" x 7" stroke was one of their magic bore/stroke ratios used on many of their airplane/marine/industrial engines. I'd measure the compression height on my Hall-Scott, but it has a 5-1/2" bore...

Chris
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:33:50 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

At least some of the Hall Scott 53/4x7 engine numbers are 400, 440, 442 and 480---but you'd probably be outbid by Hall-Scott collectors, unless those were faulty engines (which may be sacrilege)...
Check with Landis Zimmerman (olivercletrac.org)..Cletrac used the Wisc DT-4 53/4 (comp dist wrong) but he might know if anyone's fabbing old Wisc etc parts...
The JD is out, wrong comp distance
The Herc diesel DFXH lists as a 53/4--Herc diesel parts seem to be fading away rapidly, too...
I have a few Marne listings, but only in the 30-33 period; very few of my catalogs include marine engines...
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:58:21 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Good Morning Bud and Chris,
What years Hall-Scott engine would I be looking for as a possible option for pistons?
Al
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:35:21 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

(1) 36 and 49 Motor Manuals show the 400 and 480 in some Autocars 47 to 50; the 36 shows the 400 in an Oshkosh 47-49 (end date of that manual) and possibly later (the 49 MM omits Oshkosh)...
(2) Detroit Diesel has a 53/4 listed in a 94 catalog used in their square (53/4x53/4) 12V-149 and 16V-149...
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Old 07-09-2015, 04:25:14 PM
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Compression height on a FM 208 is 4.750" from the center of the wrist pin to the crown. Wrist pin is 1.500.

---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 PM ----------

Is this an air cooled engine?
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:42:30 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin, Need 5-3/4" diameter Pistons

Thanks for checking on compression height on the FM 208 piston. I think that piston is out, too much height. The engine I am working on is an inline four cylinder, "T" head, water cooled. This engine predates the air cooled Wisconsin versions. This engine was used by some heavy mobile equipment, stationary and in boats. The engine developed high torque at low RPM's and respectable HP given the low RPM's. I have a feeler out to Ross Piston for custom made pistons. It appears that I better be saving up for the big plunge. Do you have any other ideas for alternative pistons?
Al
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