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Oil Field Engines & Related Equipment

F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM


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  #1  
Old 03-19-2010, 10:29:48 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Question F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

My experience is limited. I am curious and hope someone will take a few moments to share some information with me. If the F-M 346, turning at 400 RPM's will produce near 18 HP, but I only want to lope along at about 200 RPM, can I expect about 6-8 HP output? I am currently setting up a line shaft and am calculating pulley sizes to get the right RPM for each item that will allow the engine speed of about 200 RPM. The weather is getting better and I am ready to get with it. First up, is grinding some feed with the Burr Mill.
Thanks in Advance for your time to respond,
Alan D.
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:20:21 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Not an expert but I understand there can be some oiling issues if they run too low rpm.
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Old 03-19-2010, 02:31:10 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Hello Dave,
I have heard that very same issue. Howver, I have heard of poor oiling only when coaxing the engine to run very slow for exhibition. I am hoping that 200 RPM is fast enough to whip up the oil yet slow enough to just lope along with my intended load. Thanks for your comment.
Regards, Alan
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:02:50 PM
Pete Nichols Pete Nichols is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Alan,
I think you could add extra oil and you should be o.k. at 200 rpm's .
Raising the oil level will cause more splash .

What is the rpm range on the tag ? ( me 739 is 225 to 425 )


Pete
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:05:05 PM
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Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Guys:

You can check to see if the engine's oiling all right at low speed by setting the speed at what you want. Now start the engine and, after it's warmed-up a little, remove the oil filler plug and hold a piece of white paper close to the hole and see if it gets oil spots on it.

I think that 200 RPM will be fast enough to get oiled. If not, just speed the engine up every fifteen minutes or so to slop oil all over the inside.

I can run my ZC-52 at around 120 RPM and it oils okay.

Take care - Elden
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  #6  
Old 03-19-2010, 05:46:48 PM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Make sure the mag isn't lagging. 200 is a bit slow.
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Old 03-19-2010, 07:00:36 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Hello, I am aware of the problem with the impluse clacking its self to death at slow RPM's. This motor has got a lock out. Run up the engine until the impulse drops out, then my mag has a port to insert a lock-out rod. At that point you can ease down the RPM's at not tear up the Mag. by running at the slower RPM's. Any other issues to consider?
Al
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:15:51 PM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Lock out rod? You guys come up with stuff I've never heard of. I suppose this is just pulling the impluse pin out of the housing from the outside? I'd like to see this modification. Is this with a FMX or J mag?
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:17:53 PM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Oh and back to the OP, there's no way a 346 will make 18 HP. About 12 max has been my experience.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:15:35 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Hello Again, If the 346 will not make the advertised 18 HP even at full out RPM's. Give me you idea of what HP I should get running 1/2 speed at 200 RPM. I was hoping for 6 to 8 HP. What do you think?
Alan
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:25:56 PM
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Ray Ethridge Ray Ethridge is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

If you assume the engine is working ideally then yes the horsepower at half rpm will be half of what you originally had. Horsepower equals torque times rpm divided by 5252. But I bet at low speeds you would have more of an effect by slight valve leaks, general wear, improper valve timing, improper ignition timing, etc. plus the "constant" friction being more of a percentage of the total so I would be willing to bet you will not get quite that much out of it.
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Old 03-20-2010, 12:26:40 AM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Why the 200 RPM when a typical line shaft speed is 400 RPM?
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:35:47 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Yes, 400 RPM is a typical line shaft speed and that is in fact my target. I am not going to be over working my motor at any single time. So, it is my desire to run my motor mostly unloaded to reduce wear conditions at or near 200 RPM. I would pull power from my 346 on a 24" pulley and run to a 12" pulley on the line shaft. The results would be approx. 400 RPM line shaft speed and with the motor running at 1/2 speed. Does anyone see issues with my plans?
Alan
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Old 03-20-2010, 11:51:55 AM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

...or, use a 16" sheeve on the line shaft and run the engine @ 300 rpm. Same final as the other set up.

I'd still like to see this impulse rod thingy on the mag, this may be some knowledge that will come in useful down the road.
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Old 03-20-2010, 01:00:10 PM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

my mistake, it should be an 18" not a 16" at 300 rpm.

what do I know anyway?
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:06:20 PM
DirtbikePilot DirtbikePilot is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Alan bought this engine from me. I've done a lot of testing on it at low speeds after I rebuilt it. I also did a lot of work to that magneto to make it work well at very low rpm and modified the oiling system with the same goal. 150 rpm is a very happy speed for that engine and faster is fine too.

The 346 is advertised to have 18 hp at 575 rpm in the later years. It is the same bore and stroke as the old ZA that made 10 hp at 350 rpm. I think he should be able to get about 6 hp out of it at 200 rpm and power delivery should be fine with those heavy flywheels.

Alan- you need to retime the engine to get full power out of it. I think I left the timing one or two teeth retarded.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:45:45 PM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Just my opinion but there's no way you could get a 346 to last over night running 575. Standing near it would be a near death experience.

Please explain the mag and oiling modifications?
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:15:35 AM
Trd Harper Trd Harper is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

Yes, what Reed Engine said,
Please explain the mag impulse lock out . Pictures would be great.
Thanks, Ted
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:08:31 PM
DirtbikePilot DirtbikePilot is offline
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

The only way I could really explain the impulse lockout would be with pictures and I don't have any. Basically, I drilled a hole in the flange and a rod was made to go into that hole. The rod acts like a ramp of sorts to make the impulse tang slide away from the impulse catch. That's about the best I can explain it. To make the mag work at lower rpm: I used a die grinder to dig the original ceramic magnets out of the armature and replaced them with 6 rare earth magnets. The impulse spring wasn't strong enough to keep the armature turning evenly with those magnets, so I had to increase the tension on the spring. It makes enough voltage to keep the engine running fine (except for lubrication) at about 70 rpm.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:30:36 PM
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Default Re: F-M 346 Hp at 200 RPM

If I understand the 1st part, this rod just keeps the impulse pawl from hanging on the lag screw?

I don't understand the part about the spring at all really, the spring only throws the rotor ahead at a higher velocity at start up rpm to generate higher voltage (simulates operational speeds). In my understanding the impulse spring is only along for the ride if the mag isn't clicking (impulsing).

Maybe you should consider some pictures.
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