Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets MEP Mobile Electric Power, APU Auxiliary Power Unit and other military surplus generators.

Military MEP and Aircraft Gen-Sets

Cranking Generator Without a Battery


this thread has 32 replies and has been viewed 7663 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-23-2011, 06:32:48 AM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Hello, I want to try and start a MEP 018A 24 V DC generator but don't want to buy two new batteries. Can a AC to DC converter be used? Thank You
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:08:47 AM
Stephen Girouard Stephen Girouard is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 501
Thanks: 174
Thanked 70 Times in 49 Posts
Default Re: Cranking generator without a battery

two cheap batteries can start it,no need for high dollar one's, blown up batteries or converters can be dangerous & fry more then then cost of two old batteries, the zone sometimes has reconditioned batteries

Last edited by Stephen Girouard; 01-23-2011 at 09:15:57 AM. Reason: dangerous, just a old trick of foolish welders, shouldn't of posted it
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:27:21 AM
nehog nehog is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jaffrey, New Hampshire
Posts: 325
Thanks: 5
Thanked 68 Times in 63 Posts
Default Re: Cranking generator without a battery

Just off the top of my head, (I have a MEP-004, which is 15 KW unit) the answer is an absolute no.

The risk of damage to the charging circuit is very real, as is the risk to some of the DC electronics bits too...

Add to that the fact that the starter draws a large amount of current, and you are looking at a massive converter, probably bigger than anything you might have.

As mentioned, some cheap batteries (WalMart or TSC) are probably your best bet. A couple of reasonable lawn tractor batteries would probably work OK, or even smaller car batteries.

Also read this thread if you have not done so yet: http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49428 as it may answer some of your questions. Also do a search both here and on Steelsoldiers.com, there is a lot of information about these generator sets.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to nehog For This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:15:54 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,197 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

All you need is a starter rope. Put the Normal/Emergency Run/Emergency Stop switch in Emergency Run. Wrap the Starter Rope around the pulley between the air filter housing and the oil filter and start pulling. Not easy to do BUT IT CAN BE DONE. No Batteries needed. NONE of the safety shutdowns will work.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-23-2011, 07:28:50 PM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leesville, Louisiana
Posts: 3,278
Thanks: 120
Thanked 1,154 Times in 914 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Being a 24V system and a fairly small engine, you can probably get it to start on a pair of $20 12V garden tractor batteries wired in series. This may not be up to its rated CCA level, but remember everything on these things tend to be over spec. Alternatively as has been mentioned before Auto Zone often sells "used" batteries fairly cheap (these are ones people have turned in as core exchange, but still test as good). $40-50 for some batteries is a lot cheaper than you will find any of the parts you might fry trying to run it without them.

Ike
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-23-2011, 08:25:11 PM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Thanks, I'll look for two batteries, one can go into a vehicle I'm working on the no loss there. Well in the motor turns over from the front pulley just fine but I can't remove the spark plugs(I have penetrating oil on them soaking).

The hour meter shows 309 hrs. Can someone help with the toggle/ turn switch identification? I have no labels that I can read. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-24-2011, 10:33:31 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,197 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

There are three toggle switches, One is a two position on-off switch. This is for the panel lights if you have good batteries, one is spring loaded to the center. This is your start/stop switch. Start is toggle UP, Stop is toggle down. The other is your Run/Emergency Run/Emergency Stop switch. Run is with the lever up. Emergency Run position is with the lever in the center position and Emergency Stop is lever down. For the start switch to work you MUST be in the RUN position. When in this position, if you have good batteries the engine will crank and start BUT it will not stay running until you have oil pressure. If you lose oil pressure, the engine will shutdown. When running in the RUN position, to shut the engine down all you need to do is bump the start/stop to the stop position. You do not have to hold it in the stop position. In the Emergency Run position, the start will NOT crank the engine even if you have good batteries. Once the engine is running in Emergency Run, the engine will not have any safeties. If there is no oil pressure the engine will run until it is destroyed. In the Emergency Stop position, nothing will work. It is used mainly for safetty during servicing the generator.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-24-2011, 10:54:39 AM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Thank You.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-24-2011, 07:55:59 PM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Well we got the old pig running today. Good oil pressure 60psi. Question though, I have the light switch and the start/stop switch but no Run/Emergency/stop switch? there's a blank below the light switch?

Second Q- I opened the upper cabinet and want to change the voltage to single phase 120v. I see the knob/selector but It doesn't stay in any other position. Any directions on changing voltage?

Thank You
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-25-2011, 09:50:36 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,197 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

The voltage change switch is marked on the units I have seen. DO NOT switch when the engine is running. Some of the switches need to have the knob pushed down before they can be turned to a different voltage/phase.
Could you take some close-up pictures of the inside of your control box and post them?

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:36:34 AM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by K D Redd View Post
The voltage change switch is marked on the units I have seen. DO NOT switch when the engine is running. Some of the switches need to have the knob pushed down before they can be turned to a different voltage/phase.
Could you take some close-up pictures of the inside of your control box and post them?

Kent
Thank You, I'll post pictures later today.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-26-2011, 01:26:38 AM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

I tried again and was successful in changing the voltage. I removed the carb for cleaning. Here are some pics. Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MEP1 002.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	99.1 KB
ID:	98815   Click image for larger version

Name:	MEP1 004.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	127.7 KB
ID:	98816  
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-26-2011, 08:59:27 AM
Jim Kinler Jim Kinler is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Livingston. Louisiana USA
Posts: 250
Thanks: 0
Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

never saw a cover over the switch. on 120 volt you will use some huge wire at 104 amps. saturn surplus has the carb. for 40 bucks
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-26-2011, 09:26:19 AM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
In Memory Of
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 5,348
Thanks: 166
Thanked 1,197 Times in 1,058 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Someone has replaced your start/stop switch with a push button start only switch. The second picture clearly shows the position for 120/240 volt single phase.

Kent
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-26-2011, 09:14:25 PM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by K D Redd View Post
Someone has replaced your start/stop switch with a push button start only switch. The second picture clearly shows the position for 120/240 volt single phase.

Kent
The start switch is next to the Amp meter, I don't know the purpose of pushing in the red button until oil pressure builds?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:46:39 AM
Isaac-1 Isaac-1 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leesville, Louisiana
Posts: 3,278
Thanks: 120
Thanked 1,154 Times in 914 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kinler View Post
never saw a cover over the switch. on 120 volt you will use some huge wire at 104 amps. saturn surplus has the carb. for 40 bucks
According to the NEC table 310-16 you only need 2 AWG copper wire for up to 115 amps, which is really not that big, at least it is easily handled and bent, is about 1/4 inch in diameter and about 5 feet of length to the pound.

Ike

p.s. depending on your circuit protection, etc. you might be required to move up to a larger wire size to meet code.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:10:05 AM
Jim Rankin Jim Rankin is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Faunsdale, Alabama USA
Posts: 4,436
Thanks: 71
Thanked 1,185 Times in 967 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by 930dreamer View Post
The start switch is next to the Amp meter, I don't know the purpose of pushing in the red button until oil pressure builds?
Pretty common to have that setup. Holding in the red button keeps the ignition/fuel on until the oil pressure comes up and closes/opens the low oil pressure switch. On a fully automatic setup, it would simply have a built in delay before low oil pressure shutdown becomes functional.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-27-2011, 09:48:05 PM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

I took the carb apart, it was nasty, jets were clogged etc. Put it back together today. Here are two videos
1. Running good
2. Governor surging

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...=012711029.mp4

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/e...=012711030.mp4
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-28-2011, 12:14:36 AM
Motorhead's Avatar
Motorhead Motorhead is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Coast, California
Posts: 4,977
Thanks: 2,837
Thanked 3,928 Times in 1,936 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Those 10k and 5k sets were designed to be able to be rope started without batteries. I wouldn't want to try.... they are hard enough to light off with the starter. Also, I looked at your videos with the engine running. Don't run it long at all with the top cylinder cover off. It will overheat.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Motorhead For This Post:
  #20  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:56:36 PM
930dreamer 930dreamer is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Amarillo, TX USA
Posts: 239
Thanks: 14
Thanked 61 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Cranking Generator Without a Battery

Hello, does anyone have a picture of the voltage rotary switch(and markings) on the MEP018A dash. Thanks
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Tiny Tim Generator/Battery Charger John Schwiebert Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 23 05-18-2017 01:21:13 PM
Generator or Alternator to charge 12 volt battery. Dick Graybill Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 9 08-11-2010 08:24:32 PM
How many old cranking amps and what kind of battery? 2500 Grunt Onan Generators 14 07-09-2010 01:40:56 PM
CCA Battery size for 3RM21 generator? fordiesel69 Kohler Generators 5 09-09-2007 11:06:22 PM
damage to 12 v generator/starter if no battery attached ??? werfymmot Onan Generators 0 04-04-2006 03:47:48 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29:30 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277