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EU7000 4 ton A/C Video


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  #21  
Old 01-07-2018, 05:36:08 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Had a chance to go outside with my clamp meter. It's the cheapest Fluke so it can't measure and hold the peak amps on the display (as far as I can tell).

3.5 ton heat pump. Lennox 14HPX-042-230-19.

Leg 1 was only 10 amps for a second then settled on 8.6 A. Leg 2 spiked at 32 amps before settling at 9 A. Do I need to combine the readings? I read I should just take the largest.

I don't know what the voltage would be when the compressor kicks on but at 80% of 230V that's still about 6,000 watts. Almost enough left over capacity to start the air handler at the same time if my other assumptions are correctly.

I'm going to get my HVAC dealer to install the Lennox potential relay and start capacitor and re-test.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:49:02 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Might start air handler first, the rotating mass can help fan motor make amps to help start compressor.

Odd that both hot leads didn't have high amps. I'ld expect an A/C that large to have a 240 V pump, so ~ equal hot lead amps unless maybe A/C is doing some sort of variable frequency start up. I'ld try retesting, meter might have a low sampling speed and missed the peak. I don't know fluke meters.

You might look at pump motor see what it's LRA (locked rotor amp) rating is. That's what it will ordinarily pull when it starts. I've read soft start kits do help lower load on gen to let them start big loads.

Friend has a ~3 or 3.5 ton A/C (88 amp LRA) that can easily start on a 7.5 kw Onan JB even on nat gas. But they are very conservatively rated, 1960's design
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:54:05 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

It is odd. I should have probably re-tested.

The LRA is 112 amps per the manual but even with voltage drop, it doesn't make sense to me because the breaker is only 60A.
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  #24  
Old 01-07-2018, 11:31:16 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Breakers have trip time/amp curves. 60 amp breaker flowing 65 amps will take a long time to trip, might take 5-10 ?? seconds to trip at only 112 amps. No experience with Honda, only Onan.


Interesting Onan used Airpax breakers to protect the windings. Bit detailed but interesting artical on it if your interested. https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137737

I tested 100 ft extension cord grounds by shorting the end, plugging them into 120V outlet and turning on ~ 15 or 20 amp breaker. Took ~ 3-4 seconds to trip at maybe 250 amp, Square D. Gen breakers should trip sooner than building breakers, different delay curve.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:13:18 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Interesting thing about breaker's trip response time is the less % overload is the slower it responds.

Had to generate a breaker trip curve at school once ( was a Frankenstein power lab with old knife switches @ 120/240). We'ld put a certain % overload on breaker and use a stop watch to time how many seconds it took to blow. Think we started @ 125% and went to ~ 400% (100 amps load bank into 25 amp breaker, @120V. Exposed bare copper busses )
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:32:37 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff and explains a lot.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:03:01 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

I finally had my Lennox start kit installed. This is the one with a potential relay and start capacitor. Four wires total and it mounted right next to the stock dual run capacitor. I didn't do it but it only took 5 minutes when my HVAC tech was doing my annual maintenance.

Before I installed it, I bought and installed the Sense Monitor system in my main electrical panel. It's just a pair of CTs on the main feeds and a wifi controller that talks to their back-end. After a few days it isolated/detected (in their app) my heat pump but has not found the fan blower yet.

Net result: Before, the startup of the compressor was about 6,000 watts and settled around 3,000 watts. It can be the same now but sometimes the startup is so fast my Sense Monitor doesn't pick it up. On the graph it just looks like the motor started slowly.

Assuming some guesses about my air handler, it seems I might be able to run my 3.5 ton heat pump (112 LRA) off a single EU7000. Won't know until I get my new transfer switch setup wired in.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:52:37 PM
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by billinjax View Post
I finally had my Lennox start kit installed. This is the one with a potential relay and start capacitor. Four wires total and it mounted right next to the stock dual run capacitor. I didn't do it but it only took 5 minutes when my HVAC tech was doing my annual maintenance.

Before I installed it, I bought and installed the Sense Monitor system in my main electrical panel. It's just a pair of CTs on the main feeds and a wifi controller that talks to their back-end. After a few days it isolated/detected (in their app) my heat pump but has not found the fan blower yet.

Net result: Before, the startup of the compressor was about 6,000 watts and settled around 3,000 watts. It can be the same now but sometimes the startup is so fast my Sense Monitor doesn't pick it up. On the graph it just looks like the motor started slowly.

Assuming some guesses about my air handler, it seems I might be able to run my 3.5 ton heat pump (112 LRA) off a single EU7000. Won't know until I get my new transfer switch setup wired in.
That's great news Bill. If this does workout the EU7000 parallel kit may become a moot point. When the weather breaks up here in NJ I'm going to put the kit on both of my 3.5 ton a/c's and see what happens That parallel kit must be driving Honda crazy.
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  #29  
Old 01-16-2018, 11:35:44 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Air handler motors are almost universally permanent split capacitor, constant torque motors that take little more than full load KVA at start up and during acceleration and as such are a negligible load to a generator set that can run the condensing unit.
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:34:08 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

I finally got around to converting my load side transfer switch to a backfeed breaker with interlock.

Oddly, it seems like my 3.5 ton heat pump's compressor never tried to kick on. I heard a slight noise but it was not what I expect would happen if it tried to start but couldn't. I gave up after 7-8 minutes.

The air handler was running the whole time because the thermostat was calling for AC and the Honda's LCD was reading 550 watts. It never changed at all. I never heard the engine noise deviate either.

With the hard start kit, I don't see it needing more than 3000 watts to start then it settles on about 2500 watts. It's possible it's actually drawing more current and my CTs just don't record it because it's so fast.

I will try again this weekend.
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