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Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery Discussion about misc. carbs, mixers, fuel pumps, injectors.

Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery

Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.


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  #21  
Old 10-03-2016, 07:41:29 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
There is a also another problem with STABIL...
There is also a produce out there that the manufacturer says will allow your engine to start on stale fuel and allow your engine to burn it off!
I've not heard that about Sta-Bil (and haven't encountered anything about that other product). Once gas starts smelling funky, IMO it's only good for getting a pile of brush to burn.

I have an old Monkey Wards genset (B&S engine) that needs major work, because it appears there was gas left in it at some time and varnish from the bad gas locked up the valves... tight. I got them out, but it wasn't easy and I am worried that damage might have been done to the guides. Probably a new motor would be cheaper! I wonder how long the bad gas had been in there - and if ethanol had anything to do with it.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:44:24 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

If you add fuel stabilizer to the tank, and walk off feeling like your entire fuel system is protected, then yes you may be in for a rude awakening. But if you add the stuff AND run the engine for 10 minutes or so like the instructions tell you to do, then the fuel in the carb has the same level of protection as the tank.

I have been a professional small engine tech for many years, and I've changed my share of carbs. But you know what......I've NEVER needed to replace one of my own. In my opinion the secret to smooth, trouble-free operation doesn't hinge on unleaded gas, airplane fuel, high dollar "canned" fuel, fuel stabilizers, or magnetic miracle cures. It just involves using the dang equipment year round, including the off season. You don't have to mow the snowbank around the mailbox in January, just start the thing and let it run once a month. The same way you would exercise a generator. If more people would do that, there would be far fewer problems.

As I stated earlier, good two cycle oil contains fuel stabilizer. Would I store it in my four cycle stuff? Maybe. I wouldn't be the least bit worried about damage, I'm just not sure it's needed if you exercise your equipment year round.

---------- Post added at 07:44:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:42:29 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeometrist View Post
I've not heard that about Sta-Bil (and haven't encountered anything about that other product). Once gas starts smelling funky, IMO it's only good for getting a pile of brush to burn.

I have an old Monkey Wards genset (B&S engine) that needs major work, because it appears there was gas left in it at some time and varnish from the bad gas locked up the valves... tight. I got them out, but it wasn't easy and I am worried that damage might have been done to the guides. Probably a new motor would be cheaper! I wonder how long the bad gas had been in there - and if ethanol had anything to do with it.
If I was sold on using stabilizers, I would plan for a six month storage period, tops.

No matter what the label claimed.
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2016, 08:43:13 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

"You guys crack me up. Fresh start is STABIL. Bob"

And you know this how? I've never used Sta-bil so can't compare results. I have noticed information to the extent that Sta-bil will keep gas fresh for a year v/s "Fresh Start" is rated for 2 years, and with slightly increased amount is supposed to keep gas fresh for 3 years.

I have never mixed stabilizer in an engine's gas tank. It's in all the gas that I use in my small engines.

Bill
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Old 10-04-2016, 01:29:52 AM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

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Originally Posted by Bill Sherlock View Post
"You guys crack me up. Fresh start is STABIL. Bob"

And you know this how? I've never used Sta-bil so can't compare results. I have noticed information to the extent that Sta-bil will keep gas fresh for a year v/s "Fresh Start" is rated for 2 years, and with slightly increased amount is supposed to keep gas fresh for 3 years.

I have never mixed stabilizer in an engine's gas tank. It's in all the gas that I use in my small engines.

Bill
Stabil is good for 2yrs! seems some confusion on this. Fresh start and stabil are both fuel stabilizers,probley out of same can? I would not add more then what is recommended. I did once and had a sticky valve. More is not better. Who said anything about mixing in a small engine tank,even though you could measure it out. I only use it in my gas cans or my power equipment that can set for up to 6 months. Bob

Last edited by BobRR; 10-04-2016 at 02:22:57 AM.
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:53:23 AM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

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Originally Posted by BobRR View Post
Stabil is good for 2yrs! seems some confusion on this.
Depends on what version you use. Again go to them and see what they have to say.

However this has become a dead horse. The OP is not interested in the product. We have established it does NOT have ethanol in it.
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Old 10-04-2016, 02:14:44 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

As I said in the original post, I WOULD be interested in other fuel stabilizers and people's experiences with them (or reasons for using them).

---------- Post added at 02:14:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08:54 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
We have established it does NOT have ethanol in it.
On that I would disagree, but it's not important. Just don't try to convince me to use something I'm not interested in.
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2016, 08:53:51 PM
Amax Amax is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

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Originally Posted by Archaeometrist View Post
Thanks for the useful reply. What concentration have you tried in a four cycle that worked good (and didn't create problems)?
I just pour some in. Always just a guess. Have never had a problem even when I used a 20:1 mix that I no longer needed for my boat. (I never get near that concentration when adding ot to motors.) I have never had a problem with fouled plugs; I do not even see extra smoke.
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Old 10-05-2016, 06:51:11 AM
G Willikers G Willikers is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I use various stabilizers - when I am in a store like Canadian Tire or whatever and happen to remember I need some!
Generally use the cheapest fuel for my old tractors and add stabilzer to the can as soon as I drop it in the shed. Everything I have, including lawn mowers, have fuel shut offs. When I fire up an old tractor, I shut them down by shutting off the fuel and once stopped, drain whatever is left out of the carbs. So far so good.
Weed trimmer and chain saw get higher quality fuel and stabilizer. Ethanol fuel is known to destroy the delicate parts in modern small motors like that and I have seen the evidence. Some of those little motors are basically all plastic.
Some of the guys here use Shell V-Power gasoline in their old tractors, etc.. I guess it is a high grade. I don't have the budget for that. In general, I try to get the old tractors out of gas once a year so as to add all fresh.
As someone said before on this thread, use whatever fuel program suits you best.
Mixed some fuel today and had a bottle of Lloyd's that I picked up at the TSC store in Woodstock a while back. Have never used it before - we shall see then.
https://www.lloydslaboratories.com/w...Stabilizer.pdf

Last edited by G Willikers; 10-05-2016 at 06:06:32 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-27-2016, 11:06:05 PM
lynnlpitts lynnlpitts is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Some of the people I know in the aviation field use auto-fuel under a STC instead of 100LL (low lead). Auto fuel stored seems to sour and give off varnishes. Some operators add either mineral spirits or 100LL to the fuel stating it preserves it. Some MX type buddies tell me that they only mix their 2 stroke oil before the race as the oil degrades the octane over time. Remember; experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark!
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2016, 12:28:09 AM
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I was cleaning out my FIL's garage and came across a partially used bottle of that Sta-bil stuff, that did NOT list alcohol as an ingredient (unlike the bottles I had around here - one newer one that I'd used until I realized it listed alcohol as a major ingredient, and one old empty one-now gone). It appears that they make two different versions. One with, one without. So far I've only encountered the "with" version, until I found that "without" bottle (which may be years old, although it doesn't look it).

As far as the ark story, it depends on which version you read/hear - most don't mention what he did. Most versions have the ark as a raft, the flood regional, and Noah encountering people from a nearby city when his raft landed (he only took his household and their livestock on the raft). People generally have only heard of the one version of the tale - the one in the Bible. The oldest version of Noah and the flood, found in the Epic of Gilgamesh (I have a translated copy), is radically different and dates to (as I remember) maybe a couple of thousand years after the formation of the Black Sea (one of, if not the biggest flood events in the region). That version is several thousand years old - predating the Bible (and the Jewish scriptures) by thousands of years. While there is NO evidence whatsoever supporting the most well known version, there IS evidence of massive regional floods, and while it's unlikely that we will ever find a grave marked "Here lies Noah of the Ark", there is probably some basis in truth to the story - but not literally as read in the Bible. It seems to me that the older the version, the less like the version most people are acquainted with.

Bob Ballard's expedition to the Black Sea found evidence of human occupation in an area that has been flooded for several thousands of years - well underwater. Some suggest that maybe the formation of the Black Sea led to the Noah tale (that one would make the most sense). Another possibility was during the end of the last ice age, sea levels were as much as several hundred feet lower than they are today - and rose to the point where it is today as the earth warmed. That didn't happen overnight, however - it would have taken at least a few generations for the change to occur. Until I'd learned about Ballard's expedition and the formation of the Black Sea, that was an idea I'd entertained. It's not as robust as the Black Sea version.

The Titanic didn't sink because of "experts", it sank because of a perfect storm of coincidences that came together to cause disaster - which is usually the case with disasters anyway. It's not possible to plan for EVERY eventuality, and complacency is more of a contributing factor than anything else. They'd planned for so much, they didn't think of the combination of events that DID happen, and made decisions based on their planning (reducing number of life rafts for instance) which would have been adequate for 99.99% of occurrences. It was one of those last .01% situations that sunk the Titanic.

People have been building seaworthy vessels (of all kinds) for at least 40,000 - 50,000 years... we know because modern humans were in Australia at LEAST that long and even during the ice age, people would still have hundreds of miles of deep ocean to cross. Sea vessels have also been coming to grief throughout human history, not just the Titanic. We find the evidence all the time - again I'd refer to Bob Ballard's expedition and the National Geographic video formed from it "Search for Noah's Flood". There is an entire branch of archaeology dedicated to underwater exploration... and an interesting side note, there are paleoindian archaeological sites dating at least 12,000 years old, dozens of miles out in the Gulf of Mexico. That aspect of archaeology makes for fascinating reading.
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  #31  
Old 12-28-2016, 01:46:34 AM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeometrist View Post
I was cleaning out my FIL's garage and came across a partially used bottle of that Sta-bil stuff, that did NOT list alcohol as an ingredient (unlike the bottles I had around here - one newer one that I'd used until I realized it listed alcohol as a major ingredient, and one old empty one-now gone). It appears that they make two different versions. One with, one without. So far I've only encountered the "with" version, until I found that "without" bottle (which may be years old, although it doesn't look it).

As far as the ark story, it depends on which version you read/hear - most don't mention what he did. Most versions have the ark as a raft, the flood regional, and Noah encountering people from a nearby city when his raft landed (he only took his household and their livestock on the raft). People generally have only heard of the one version of the tale - the one in the Bible. The oldest version of Noah and the flood, found in the Epic of Gilgamesh (I have a translated copy), is radically different and dates to (as I remember) maybe a couple of thousand years after the formation of the Black Sea (one of, if not the biggest flood events in the region). That version is several thousand years old - predating the Bible (and the Jewish scriptures) by thousands of years. While there is NO evidence whatsoever supporting the most well known version, there IS evidence of massive regional floods, and while it's unlikely that we will ever find a grave marked "Here lies Noah of the Ark", there is probably some basis in truth to the story - but not literally as read in the Bible. It seems to me that the older the version, the less like the version most people are acquainted with.

Bob Ballard's expedition to the Black Sea found evidence of human occupation in an area that has been flooded for several thousands of years - well underwater. Some suggest that maybe the formation of the Black Sea led to the Noah tale (that one would make the most sense). Another possibility was during the end of the last ice age, sea levels were as much as several hundred feet lower than they are today - and rose to the point where it is today as the earth warmed. That didn't happen overnight, however - it would have taken at least a few generations for the change to occur. Until I'd learned about Ballard's expedition and the formation of the Black Sea, that was an idea I'd entertained. It's not as robust as the Black Sea version.

The Titanic didn't sink because of "experts", it sank because of a perfect storm of coincidences that came together to cause disaster - which is usually the case with disasters anyway. It's not possible to plan for EVERY eventuality, and complacency is more of a contributing factor than anything else. They'd planned for so much, they didn't think of the combination of events that DID happen, and made decisions based on their planning (reducing number of life rafts for instance) which would have been adequate for 99.99% of occurrences. It was one of those last .01% situations that sunk the Titanic.

People have been building seaworthy vessels (of all kinds) for at least 40,000 - 50,000 years... we know because modern humans were in Australia at LEAST that long and even during the ice age, people would still have hundreds of miles of deep ocean to cross. Sea vessels have also been coming to grief throughout human history, not just the Titanic. We find the evidence all the time - again I'd refer to Bob Ballard's expedition and the National Geographic video formed from it "Search for Noah's Flood". There is an entire branch of archaeology dedicated to underwater exploration... and an interesting side note, there are paleoindian archaeological sites dating at least 12,000 years old, dozens of miles out in the Gulf of Mexico. That aspect of archaeology makes for fascinating reading.
What the hell does the ark have to do with gas/ethanol or stabile? STABILE does not contain ethanol. Please show me the bottle that says other wise. Bob
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  #32  
Old 12-28-2016, 12:16:14 PM
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

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What the hell does the ark have to do with gas/ethanol or stabile? STABILE does not contain ethanol. Please show me the bottle that says other wise. Bob
Replying to the previous poster, as far as the "ark". What you asked was my very first question, but I figure it was an attempt to drag religion into the discussion while being insulting. So I answered pointing out facts about the statement (which was completely wrong in implication and based on inaccurate information). The more people preach at us, the further away they drive us. The sad thing is that you can't tell certain people that - they don't listen.

I've been round and round about Sta-Bil. Here is one picture (of the older bottle).



The other bottle (found at my FIL's house) doesn't say anything about Ethanol, and I don't know of anything effective at countering the effects of adding ethanol to gas. This is what is sold in the stores (at least the ones I've purchased it from), and what I'd been using in my lawnmowers and weedeater (and chainsaw) for years. All of the two-stroke motors went bad because of alcohol damage (brittle and broken plastic, etc.) in spite of this - and I didn't leave the fuel in over long periods. It's not treatment FOR ethanol, that's for sure! (It doesn't do a thing!) Now that a local station sells alcohol-free gas, that's what I'm using. So far (knock on wood) the replacements for the tools that went bad have lasted - almost a year. We'll see how they fare when the couple of months of dry and cool weather are gone and the grass is shooting up again.

---------- Post added at 11:13:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:12:36 AM ----------

Well, I uploaded a picture and linked to it in the reply, but it doesn't show. I don't know what went wrong.

---------- Post added at 11:16:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13:54 AM ----------

Trying again.
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  #33  
Old 12-30-2016, 02:56:50 PM
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

As a small engine tech of many years Ive found anything labelled Sta-Bil doesnt work that well anymore with ethanol in our fuel. We used to sell it at work and we had problems after a while. About a little over a month before mowing season started is when it got real bad with come backs. I would do a complete tune on a mower and it would leave with our fresh treated fuel regardless if the customer said they just put fresh fuel in, it went right into the waste oil container. The mower would sit in the customers garage or shed for a month or just over then when they went to start it for that first cut it wouldnt run and they would come back madder than hell they just spent all this money on it. Each time I would remove the gas cap and smell the fuel, smelled fine. Took the air filter out and shot carb spray through the intake and it would fire right off and run perfect. Let it cool overnight and the same thing. The carb spray would make it fire a few times to build up enough cylinder heat to finally ignite the fuel. So I would just flush the fuel system and put fresh fuel in and have them come take it home and it was fine after that. So we switched to Star-Tron and that worked for a few years then the same thing happened. We stumbled across a product 3 years ago called Ethanol Shield and bought a case. When the next problem child came back through the shop one humid summer day I drained the fuel into one of those clear cups liquid detergent comes with and you could see how cloudy it was. I put two drops of Star Tron in and waited 10 minutes and it did nothing. I put two drops of Ethanol Shield in and within a few minutes the gas was clear. That was the end of the Star Tron. I havent seen a problem since. At home I have 1 gallon gas cans so I always have a good turn around so never have a problem. If you want to use 2 cycle oil as a stabilizer the Stihl Ultra is the way to go plus it will coat the inside of the carb plus lube valves like mystery oil does. It wont harm your 4 cycle carb in any way because if it did you couldnt use it in a 2 cycle carb. In fact that oil is so good Ive seen on forums where they advise adding it to diesel fuel to lube your pump over ATF or MMO. If you want the best protection in your carbs use small engine fuel. It can stay in the engine for up to a year with no issues and in a sealed can for 2 years. Pump gas is such garbage today I wont run it in my vintage Briggs. I use Coleman liquid camping fuel. They run much better and the stuff just evaporates off. Not cheap though. This all is just my experience here in New England climates.
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:51:34 PM
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I've heard, sometimes fuel filters break down and allow debris by.
I honestly don't have a good suggestion, other than using fresh fuel and changing the fuel filters. I can't endorse 100LL since it puts atomized lead into the air and has been shown to reduce IQ in children.
Keep fuel containers tightly sealed and cover the vents of fuel tanks when in storage to reduce exposure to air. Over time, components of the gasoline such as the olefins and diolefins form gums or "Auto-oxidize".
Those are my recommendations. Good luck.


Reference:
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/641270.pdf
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:20:47 AM
Jet Provost Jet Provost is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I have had good luck with Startron.

https://www.amazon.com/Star-brite-En...ews/B0014419UQ
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