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Alternative Fuels An energy source alternative to using fossil fuels. Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, other than conventional fuels. Waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Alternative Fuels

E15 Ethanol


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  #21  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:39:36 PM
Jim M. Jim M. is offline
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

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Originally Posted by C-Wade7 View Post
It can cause hardstart and long crank on electronic fuel controlled cars as well as lean conditions depending on how it runs. Over 10% long fuel trim will set a p0171/174 lean code and on a car that is already at 7-8% the additional ethanol can and will push it over the edge. New cars are designed to run as lean as possible. In a carb car it is already so rich I don't know you would notice. As a mechanic I can tell you since they started with e-10 we have seen the number of crank no stat due to fuel pump failure probably triple. The electrical windings are fine the pump seizes. In a drive ability condition ford has pull fuel samples and check ethanol content by adding measured amounts of water to check adsorption, and over 10% is not acceptable.
C-Wade7
Do you believe running a car low on gas will overheat a fuel pump and cause early failure? Is this a real possibility or just an old tale? Jim
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:19:09 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

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Originally Posted by Jim M. View Post
C-Wade7
Do you believe running a car low on gas will overheat a fuel pump and cause early failure? Is this a real possibility or just an old tale? Jim
Don't know about overheating, but do know continually running at low fuel levels wears out the upper pump bearing due to lack of lubrication.
Years back, there was an article in newspaper about getting high fuel mileage. one of the many tips was to reduce weight by only filling tank 1/3 or 1/2, and running it down.
Some people who tried it claimed better fuel mileage, but I know of several who had to replace in tank pump $$$!
Top bearing wore out.
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:42:40 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

Makes sence. And with the higher fuel pump pressure needed for fuel injected engines, I'm sure the pumps do run hotter, so would benefit from being submerged for cooling.

Don't know how people could accurately figure their gas milage with 1/3 to 1/2 full tanks as most fuel gauges aren't that accurate and they are just guessing at how full it would be whether they added 3 gallons or 5 gallons at a time.

Back in the 1970s early 80s, I found out that my 68 Oldsmobile actually got better milage with a full tank and more weight (in the back). I always completely filled it and checked the milage on every tank but would get better milage when I refilled from 3/4-7/8 full than when I refilled from 1/8-1/4 full. I always suspected it was due to the added weight in back raising the front end a little and affecting the steering alignment. Near empty tank meant more front end weight affecting the toe-in and tire scrub adding drag and costing gas milage.
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:44:41 PM
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Billy J Shafer Billy J Shafer is offline
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

Some fuel pumps require a good fuel flow to cool the pump.
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:51:14 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

In my 92 Chev in-tank gas pump, That looks exactly what GM engineers intended to do, cool the electric motor with liquid gasoline.

Pump is at bottom of assembly , and fuel flows up thru the motor, in rotor/stator gap and in gap between magnets, and over comutator. Cools everything.
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:40:32 PM
C-Wade7 C-Wade7 is online now
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

I rarely run mine below a quarter tank. There seemes to be no rhyme or reason to failure but I have been noticing the ones that fail the most are ones not driven much. I did one Friday that was a 1999 with only 87k miles. We used to never see many low mileage failures in the past but in the last 5 years or so it is common. I know on a system with return fuel supply the lower the level of fuel the hotter it gets from adsorbtion, but it may be a wives tale.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:38:42 AM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

wade.....in the pump failures you fixed,,,,, any chance you tore them apart to see what went wrong?? corrosion, worn brushes ??

On mine, in addition to corrosion, I noticed one brush was alot shorter than the other ( it is not the design).

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 AM ----------

******************************
It's interesting on several GM replacment pumps, they come with a ~1/8 inch thick jacket that covers the Aluminum round housing, supposably to quite them. It would act as thermal insulation too.
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:25:31 AM
C-Wade7 C-Wade7 is online now
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

I have'nt tore them apart, it appaers to just be froze either stuck impeller or brush. Hard to say cause on anything but lowest bidder makes all the parts,so I'm sure that has some to do with it too.
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  #29  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:49:02 PM
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

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Originally Posted by OTTO-Sawyer View Post
Don't know how people could accurately figure their gas mileage with 1/3 to 1/2 full tanks as most fuel gauges aren't that accurate and they are just guessing at how full it would be whether they added 3 gallons or 5 gallons at a time.
Guy I was friendly with (just retired and moved south where it is warmer) had a masters in statistical analysis. He had been driving Chevy Suburbans since 1980's. Logs everything - tire pressures, air temp. Keeps them for 250-300,000 miles. Has spreadsheets for everything.

Every test he runs is between 5,000 and 10,000 miles long with only 1 thing changed. Same route to/ from work. He ran each major brand of gasoline for 5,000 miles to see if there was a difference in mileage. Temperature compensated - colder temps cut mileage on his car - says no significant difference.

He and several people where he worked run the fuel test. I did not believe 150 pounds of gas (31 gal tank) would be significant on 5,100 pound vehicle, but it was. He showed almost 1 MPG better! The guys he worked with had all different vehicles and showed statistically significant gains too, but some had to replace fuel pumps.

He also ran tests on all synthetic vs Chevy recommended oil. Changed oil in transmission, transfer case, differentials, engine to full synthetic. Found better cold weather mileage, no warm weather difference.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:03:54 PM
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Default Re: E15 Ethanol

Someone that runs tests like that, I Would tend to Believe.

Most people on the road don't even know how to figure gas milage with a full tank, let alone partial tanks. Some do, but the vast majority haven't got a clue.

1 MPG better with 150 pounds less weight seems a bit high, but he may have had the same situation I did with my old Oldsmobile, only with the reverse effect on the steering. His might have liked more front end weight, where mine liked more rear end weight. All depends on how full the tank was when the front end alignment was done.

They figure every 100 pounds is equal to 1/10 of a second in quarter mile performance, so YES, Less weight Should equal better milage as well, but I'm still guessing there was a weight transfer and slight steering alignment change that he didn't account for in gaining that extra 1 MPG with 150 pounds. A 1/2 MPG increase in a Suburban I could believe without the difference in tire scrub from the weight transfer.
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