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Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery Discussion about misc. carbs, mixers, fuel pumps, injectors.

Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery

Holley 650 carb issues


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  #21  
Old 04-13-2016, 11:08:29 PM
Amax Amax is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Personally, the heck with Holley or Quadrajet carbs.

The best economy and drivability comes from the good old Rochester 4 Jet.

Dirt simple to rebuild and maintain, too.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.
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  #22  
Old 04-14-2016, 11:38:05 AM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipTosser View Post
Otto!

I thought this was to give the guy help on his asked subject? I have given him pertinent information for his request.

You have high jacked his request with your opinion only. I can not help it if you have had bad results be cause of, what ever. You can use what ever you like.
ChipTosser:

Get off your high horse !

I didn't highjack the thread with "my opinion only" anymore than you did with Your Opinion, and I wasn't the First One to suggest going back to the factory issued Quadrajet.
The Subject is Carburetor Problems and getting his Fathers truck running again.

And if you had bothered to read what I wrote you would see that I told him: ""Kind of like the "Ford-v-Chevy-v-Dodge" or "John Deere-v-IH" arguments it all comes down to which is your favorite brand for whatever reason. If you want to stick with the Holley, there's lots of good ideas posted on here on what it may need to fix your problem. ""

As for your "pertinent information" all you did was Repeat what several others had already said about the Power Valves, Float Level, and Fuel Pressure, and where others went on to give more information on settings and adjustments all you did was try to bash the Quadrajet because you don't like them any more than I like Holley's..... Again, nothing more than the Ford-v-Chevy-Doge type of argument.

I've rebuilt my share of carbs of all makes and models over the years and they all worked as planned when I was done with them and continued to work for many many years afterwards with no adjustments needed. I also know plenty of people that have thrown fists-full of money into their Holley's and end up working on them every other weekend where I never have to.

It's his truck and he can do what he wants to with it. I just gave the guy another cheap and easy option with my reasons why I stand by them and you simply repeated what everyone else already told him.

I don't have a problem with you, so don't go turning this into a pissing match if you can't give him any more suggestions than what everyone else already did, which may only help till the next time it backfires.

And with That, I hope to be done with this thread unless you care to argue some more about it.

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  #23  
Old 04-14-2016, 01:07:15 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Gosh folks, it is just a carburetor.

Not like we are talking about the end of the free world or anything. Times like this I am glad I have a diesel!
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  #24  
Old 04-14-2016, 03:21:33 PM
Georgia SS Georgia SS is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Hey Guys
Can't pass this opertunity to add my two cents worth, for starters I am closer to eighty than seventy, worked on automobiles, trucks, tractors and any thing with a wheel or motor, fairly successful local dirt track racing career, so we lived with holley carbs. a few years back had a coustomer bring in a junk holley to put on a new rebuilt 390 ford p.u., spent 2 days on that holley, run like crap, no idle fuel, about ready to give up, had more invested than it was worth, finally made a call to a guy that had been down ever road, told him my problem, told me to take the metering plates of break off the two gasket holding tits, get the largest flat file around and flatten both sides of the plates, in 30 minutes was running like new, and yes multiple base gaskets and don't over tighten.
good luck
Jimmy
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  #25  
Old 04-15-2016, 02:46:49 PM
Greg Mosley Greg Mosley is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Thanx Jimmy, I mentioned this in an earlier post. Nine times out of ten the metering blocks are bent. (Warped) Wisdom is good! Enuf Said
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  #26  
Old 07-19-2016, 08:47:41 PM
IronworkerFXR IronworkerFXR is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

dealt with a lot of holly carbs, had no choice when racing the ford, fuel pressure is important and also the power valve.
IF I was running a 350 I would use a well tuned Q jet any day over a holly.
just my 2 C
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  #27  
Old 07-25-2016, 10:42:57 PM
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

OK - not going to get into the Holley vs Q-Jet vs ...??? Both can be made to work.

I will comment that if one is going to use a square-bore carb and has a spread-bore manifold, one should realize it is impossible for the marriage to work as well as either should.

Having said that, moving on to the issues posted.

Did the hard starting began when the weather got hot?

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Tro...#Hardstartcold

Does the fuel run out beside the throttle shafts ALL of the time, or just when the engine is switched off?

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Tro...g.htm#Fuelleak

You mention the base needs trueing. Assuming you mean the throttle body. If so, where? On the top where it mates to the main body, or on the bottem where it should mate to the manifold, but is now mating to an adapter? If we are referring to the throttle body, it should be aluminum, not zinc alloy, and warpage is quite rare. Or is the adapter warped?

Can you rebuild the carburetor? Probably, but if the throttle body IS warped and will require machine shop work, why bother? Used Holleys are literally a dime a dozen. If you wish to stay with the Holley, get one with no warpage, and rebuild it. Remember that if there is a reason the throttle body warped, machining to remove metal will mean if the reason is not diagnosed and fixed, the throttle body now has less rigidity and will again warp, but sooner.

Also, if you are sold on Holleys, Holley used to make a 650 spread-bore that will bolt to the Q-Jet manifold WITHOUT the need for the adapter.

Personally, I would.....no, I am not going there. Hope the above is useful to you.

Jon.
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:08:15 PM
s100 s100 is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

I've owned any number of Holley carburetors over the years and have found them to be crudely designed, thirsty and trouble prone. If the truck came with a Holley, that's what the factory engineers developed and tested the engine with and I didn't feel like trying to outsmart 'em. I've got better things to do. That said, I spent an inordinate amount of time working on the stupid things.

On the flip side, the Rochester Q-jets are sophisticated, reliable and economical. Yes they are fussy to rebuild but it's not rocket science and if you can take it apart and can follow instructions you can put it back together again to good effect. Give it a try, what have you got to lose? You'll have less time and aggravation tied up in this repair than you would have trying to re-engineer the thing and cobble on some adapt-a-kit junk.

Now even though I have nothing good to say about Holleys, if your engine came with one from the factory, I would urge you to fix it and run that, for the same reasons mentioned above. Re-engineering something is time and cost intensive if you hope to get ir right, and simply bolting on something some doofus in an auto parts store or "hot rod" supply says will work is leaving WAY too much to luck and chance.
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  #29  
Old 09-11-2016, 02:06:48 AM
Prony Man Prony Man is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

I put a 650 spread-bore on my new 78 f-150 4X4. I bought it for 20 bucks, rebuilt it with Holley parts. It had the huge mechanical secondaries and tiny primaries. Also the big secondary pump. With 351M 4SP, Edelbrock intake, big Crane hyd. cam, 4.56 gears and 38 ground hawgs. I got consistent 17 mpg on interstate hwy. trips to Silver lake sand dunes in Michigan. Usually 3or 4 Chevys in our group got 10-12 mpg. We all stopped for gas together and compared mileage. The Holley double-pumper carb was invented by Smokey Yunick, developed from a highly modified IH heavy truck carb. Check out his book, Best dam garage in town. Its actually a 3 volume set.
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2016, 08:57:55 AM
angrybug73 angrybug73 is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

With the benefit of some experience, I too would recommend replacing the finikey Holley with a Rochester Quadrajet (or Edelbrock if you have a square bore manifold) for better drivability, better fuel economy, and no constant fiddling, and adjusting. Holley is a good carb for racing on Sundays, or for applications that put more importance on full throttle performance than they do idle, and part throttle performance, like Chevy 366, and 427 tall deck, medium duty truck engines. For a vehicle that goes down the street, stops at the red lights, and cruises low, and slow, a Holley will eventually become troublesome.

I would venture a guess that the shops in your area won't work on it because they know that it's extremely difficult to get a used Holley to work right consistently, and not exceed the cost of outright replacement. I have turned down the opportunities to rebuild Holley four barrels because they're too prone to coming back for ruptured power valves, mixture adjustments, float adjustments, and fuel leaks.
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  #31  
Old 09-12-2016, 03:42:30 PM
EvilDr235 EvilDr235 is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Stromberg 97 and that's all i have got to say. Nothing like a big bore flattie with a forest of 97's.
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  #32  
Old 10-23-2016, 10:23:11 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

I think this is the thread I received a pm in reference to updating? I had read the entrys back weeks ago but other than the truck being parked for the time being while other aspects of life are being delt with not much else has happened to it.
Sorry I haven't kept things updated. Life gets in the way but that does not mean I don't appreciate the help and the info is here when work is done.
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  #33  
Old 10-31-2016, 11:08:56 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

I just got done dealing with a Holley doing the same thing, I agree with a earlier post bad floats unless it has brass floats. The non brass floats tend to get gas logged and you constantly wind up adjusting them. A quick and easy fix if you think you have some crud in the needle & seat is disconnect the fuel line and run it out of gas. When you hook the line back up fuel will rush by the needle and flush out any contamination. All it takes is a piece of lint to cause it not to seal.
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  #34  
Old 02-10-2017, 12:48:17 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Well this truck saw little use till a month ago when we had a ice storm. My dad went to his girlfriends with a generator in the back.
It made it the 20 mile trip,but had to come home the next day on the back of a Kenworth rollback.
What ever was wrong with the carb finally let go.
I have dreaded trying to cipher it. but after looking at the price of new carbs, and not being certain it was the only issue with the truck, I didn't want to see money wasted on a new carb.
So I bit the bullet. I bought a 33 dollar kit ,took it off and apart a bit at the time and cleaned and installed the new parts from the kit.
I found a BUNCH of coffee grounds looking mess in the bottom of the bowls. you can see some of it in 1 of the pictures. I soaked that screen in methlethelkeytone as it is the only thing I found that will help break loose old crudy fuel.
But no problem that really stood out as causing the issue of flooding to the point of not running.
But the orings around the needle and seats looked rough. and that crud may have been part of it.
The thing that makes me mad is we paid a guy to fix this carb a few years back when we rebuilt the engine. But I found 3 things about the carb that even with my inexperience with 4 barrels stood out as wrong.
The float for the rear barrels, was set so wrong it could not have been letting in any fuel to speak of. a lot of bad gas and crud in that bowl.
The base is held onto the body with 8 12-24 bolts about 7/8ths inch long. There was only 4 in it! Carb was always damp around that gasket area. now I know why.
The diaphragm for the vacuum secondary had not been replaced as the screw holes were tattered. a new 1 was not in the kit either. I think i saw them separate at the parts store.
For what the guy charged, we thought it was right. And the truck did run "ok" for a couple years.
As I took each section apart it got cleaned in the ultrasonic cleaner .
The base was not level either so I used my table top belt sander to deal with that.
Once it was finished I put it back on the truck.
It runs dang good now. Cold natured,but it is a manual choke carb so just give it a tug.
I am wanting to learn about a "preset" for the 2 idle screws in the side of the carb so i can get them to a base line and fiddle with it some. they change the way the engine runs but it does not idle smooth as I would like. I swapped out to new plugs to as some looked gas fouled.

So I bit the bullet and got the truck running ok again.It will actually spin both rear tires taking off from a standstill now.Something it wouldn't do before.
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  #35  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:29:55 AM
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

If it has one of the charcoal canister filters mounted by the radiator which has lines from the gas tank vent then on to the carb , I saw one that the charcoal was breaking up and getting drawn into the carb line on top. my uncle had a 2 barrel dodge with that problem. just something to look at, may not apply.
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  #36  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:34:58 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

No canister on this 1 but my old 77 chevy wagon has that.
I realize now that I did not adjust but 1 float back in april of last year. I guess I didn't realize at the time there was 1 on the back and not both at the front? Or just plain didn't pay attention? DUH.
Anyhow, I drove it this morning to breakfast. I had to turn the idle up slightly as I had it to low. I had to restart a couple times cause i pushed the choke in to quick.It was 29 degrees outside so it took it a minute to warm up. But it runs fine on the road now. Much better than it did when we first got the truck back on the road. I am surprised I was this successful with this being it was my first 4 barrel overhaul
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  #37  
Old 02-10-2017, 12:20:40 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

You might try and put one of those clear gas filters in the fuel line right before the carburetor. This will catch any crap coming thru the fuel line and pump, before it gets into the fuel supply needles or other carb componants. It will also let you see if any crap is getting thru the system.
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  #38  
Old 02-10-2017, 03:36:05 PM
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

when I assembled the engine in the truck I put a clear filter inline to help with trash issues.This is a before I took it apart pic. we changed it out trying to cipher the problem and the old 1 did have some stuff in it but it was the 1 we put in it when we assembled the truck so it is safe to assume a old filter will have some stuff in it.I can't see how the crud got past the filter. My honest opinion, the carb was not cleaned well and this crud was in crevices in the float bowels or something and broke free over time,clogging stuff.
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  #39  
Old 02-10-2017, 05:10:40 PM
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

Glad to hear you got it running better (even with the Holley)

Keep us posted as to how well it works Long-Term, whether it keeps running as it should or starts acting up again with all the problems previously mentioned by several people.

One of the few things I DO Like about Holley's is the fact that the float level can be adjusted while it is running which can help overcome a few of the rich/lean/flooding problems.

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Old 03-01-2017, 12:55:10 AM
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Default Re: Holley 650 carb issues

It is still running on the road fine. the idle is just not smooth.
I aint so sure it is not something else besides the carb but Dad is able to drive it and such so I am happy.
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