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Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery Discussion about misc. carbs, mixers, fuel pumps, injectors.

Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery

Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.


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  #1  
Old 10-02-2016, 01:27:34 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I went to add some of that "Staybil" (or however it's spelled) to the fuel for my weedeater, and have used it in the past with my Clinton and Briggs (and Onan). The problem is, I noticed in the fine print that it's based on Ethanol.

I've taken to using no-ethanol gas for my small engines, because of the problems I've had in the past (had a chain saw, couple of weedeaters, and lawnmower go bad {unrepairable} because of ethanol-added gas - tubing and carbs shot, even with "Staybil" added).

Is there another brand of stabilizer that I could get that DOESN'T include ethanol? I don't trust Staybil any more because of what I learned - and after being told that it would cost more to repair my 'stuff' than it would cost to replace them.
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Old 10-02-2016, 01:42:33 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

A good brand of two cycle oil usually has stabilizers already in it. I never treat two cycle fuel, just the unmixed stuff in the 4 cycles.
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Old 10-02-2016, 03:45:30 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Ether you like the stuff or not. Here are words from the horse's mouth.

https://www.goldeagle.com/tips-tools...myths-debunked
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Old 10-02-2016, 03:54:12 PM
Amax Amax is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

X2 on using two-cycle oil. And, it is a heck of a lot cheaper than StaBil!!!
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Old 10-02-2016, 04:24:57 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
Here are words from the horse's mouth.
Do you have any sources that AREN'T from the corporation? I've learned the hard way to NEVER but NEVER trust what a corporation says. Their only "good" is maximized profit - and they will lie through their teeth to do so.

It says right on the package "Ethanol Treatment". That suggests that it contains or is based on Ethanol.

There has got to be something that will work OK with 4 cycle motors - and that's good to know about the 2 cycle oil.
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Old 10-02-2016, 04:39:58 PM
turbo turbo is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I have tried all the commercial fuel stabilizers and found what works best is two stroke oil. Everything that is going to sit for at least 6 months gets some. I found this out on my own when I once had a gallon of E-10 that was mixed as 2 stroke fuel for my chainsaw. It would still burn after almost 3 years in my storage shed!!! Also ever since I have been using it as stabilizer I don't have any problems with stale fuel and gummed up carbs. The only thing that I would not try to use it in is anything with a catalytic converter. It might not like the oil.
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Old 10-02-2016, 04:54:51 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeometrist View Post
Do you have any sources that AREN'T from the corporation? I've learned the hard way to NEVER but NEVER trust what a corporation says. Their only "good" is maximized profit - and they will lie through their teeth to do so.

It says right on the package "Ethanol Treatment". That suggests that it contains or is based on Ethanol.

There has got to be something that will work OK with 4 cycle motors - and that's good to know about the 2 cycle oil.
I would trust the corp. before some off the wall site. Corp. would get their butts sued off. Ethanol treatment MEANS its for treating ethanol fuel. Briggs&strantion recommends stabil as does Steihl. I have bought a couple of new briggs powered lawn mowers and they came with a small bottle of fuel stabilizer. Most good 2cycle oil comes with stabil or equivalent already in it. Bob
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Old 10-02-2016, 05:42:37 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRR View Post
I would trust the corp. before some off the wall site.
I don't think Smokstak is an "off the wall site". That is why I'm asking here. There are many ways a corporation can skew things and remain legal (maybe just barely legal). I'm asking here because people who work on "old motors" (of all types) generally know a bit more about what really works and what doesn't. Of course, we'll find corporate shills just about everywhere - and people like myself who have been burned too many times to ever trust corporations written statements and claims again. I think I'd get more straight info here than at their website.

If a little 2 stroke oil will protect gas in a four cycle without causing problems (including smoking for mosquitoes), I'd go with that. Problem is - what is a good rule of thumb concentration? I would think the same concentration (40-1, 50-1) as used in a 2 stroke might cause excessive smoke or carbon buildup, or fouling. I've never experimented with it - and don't care to risk my equipment.
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Old 10-02-2016, 06:42:59 PM
gleaner gleaner is online now
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

If I were you I'd as Bernie Sanders.
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Old 10-02-2016, 06:49:42 PM
DustyBar DustyBar is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

According to the MSDS, Gold Eagle - Sta-Bil Marine Fuel Stabiliser doesn't mix with water and its main ingredient is isoparaffins petroleum hydrotreated HFP. Its probably very similar to WD-40. Here is the MSDS http://www.stihl.com.au/p/media/down...014_Aug_01.pdf

Last edited by DustyBar; 10-02-2016 at 07:37:53 PM.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:24:53 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

First off, I quit buying ethanol gas for my small air cooled engines several years ago due to all the problems it caused. Adding stabilizer to it was a waste of time and money.

I now buy non ethanol Premium gas by the 5 gallon jerry can and add Briggs & Stratton's "Fresh Start" stabilizer at the time of fill. It is supposed to keep gas fresh for 2 years. That way I don't need to worry about draining gas tanks on my lawn mowers or rototillers in the fall. Since quitting the ethanol gas I've had zero carburetor problems and haven't had to clean a carburetor since.

For my 2 cycle engines I mix up 2 cycle oil with the Premium gas that I added the "Fresh Start" to to simplify things.

For occasional use of my chain saw I've been using a 40 to 1 zero ethanol pre-mixed gas sold as "True Fuel". It's considerably more than Premium gas but convenient and well worth the cost in terms of time and money saved in fixing ethanol caused problems.

Bill
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:29:19 PM
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo View Post
what works best is two stroke oil.
Thanks for the useful reply. What concentration have you tried in a four cycle that worked good (and didn't create problems)?
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:56:40 PM
DustyBar DustyBar is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Sherlock View Post
...pre-mixed gas sold as "True Fuel". It's considerably more than Premium gas but convenient and well worth the cost...
I've heard of problems buying pre-mixed for outboards. The consistency was hit and miss and depended on the source. The oil may have been in the bulk tank but all of it at the bottom.
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:59:46 AM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

You guys crack me up. Fresh start is STABIL. Bob

---------- Post added at 02:59:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41:38 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeometrist View Post
Thanks for the useful reply. What concentration have you tried in a four cycle that worked good (and didn't create problems)?
Lets see you had 2 stroke engines die using 2 stroke fuel now you want some one to tell you the proper mix of 2 stroke in a 4 stroke which its not recommend for. Then on top of that your responses are from folks all over the country. There are dozens of different fuel mixes for the country and weather.(temp&humidity)If you read the link in post 3 it recommends using marine Stabil in high humidity areas. If you want to know what works in your area try your self. Bob
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:21:59 AM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Those two stroke motors (and possibly a couple of four stroke) died because I used gas containing alcohol. I suspect Sta-bil contains alcohol (based on their own packaging) and don't trust the company (and won't, no matter how hard people insist that I MUST trust them). A couple of people made suggestions, and I listened to them - and immediately heard from people trying to get me to trust something I no longer trust.

Which makes more sense - trying to force someone to use something they don't trust, or making other suggestions based on their own experiences? If you want to trust the corporation that makes Sta-bil, that's your choice (and ditto for their other apparent shills). I don't. I've also learned about the Briggs and Stratton stabilizer. Good, I plan on checking into that too. I'm looking for suggestions and so on, not pressure to continue with a product I don't trust. What worked, what didn't... and enough about how great Sta-Bil is. I am changing to something else, and that decision is final. (All the pressure to try to keep me with Sta-Bil will only make me more determined to change - or if I can't find something else that works, do without.)
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:58:40 AM
OldStover OldStover is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo View Post
I have tried all the commercial fuel stabilizers and found what works best is two stroke oil. Everything that is going to sit for at least 6 months gets some. I found this out on my own when I once had a gallon of E-10 that was mixed as 2 stroke fuel for my chainsaw. It would still burn after almost 3 years in my storage shed!!! Also ever since I have been using it as stabilizer I don't have any problems with stale fuel and gummed up carbs. The only thing that I would not try to use it in is anything with a catalytic converter. It might not like the oil.
Pretty much this

use NON-ETHANOL GAS, and it will not turn to crap in 6 months- period. Add a small amount of 2 stroke oil if you wish to coat things with a small amount of oil.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:10:07 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Dont use it if you have something against it.

I can tell you that I have had problems with mixed gas going bad over the years. It still gets gummy and when the gas evaporates over time, you are left with the oil.

So if you are going to store equipment with gas in it, either run it often and keep pouring in new gas, or find some other product you can trust so you can sleep at night.

Stop bashing a company just because you think they lied to you. No interest in the company myself and do not use the product.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:40:59 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
Stop bashing a company just because you think they lied to you.
I didn't bash the company - I just mentioned in the beginning that their labeling indicated their product was based on ethanol. Then people started defending the company. So I replied and started feeling like I had to defend my position, when what I wanted was suggestions as to a different product, based on experiences. Re-read my initial post and parse it out - it's clear that I wanted suggestions of alternatives and not defense of the corporation. I'm usually a very precise and accurate writer - I have to be.

Granted, their labeling may be inaccurate. That, however, doesn't mean that I have to be corrected - just give me alternative suggestions and I'd appreciate learning why they are suggested!
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:47:54 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

I did.

And you are the one that went on the tantrum of how corporations can not be trusted.

Use oil in your gas if you want. I only use it as a lubricant in a 2 cycle as required. I do not use it as a stabilizer. If you do some research, you will find 2 cycle oils that have stabilizers in them. Course you would have to trust the evil corporate shills.

Taken from your posts numbered 6 and 8.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:20:43 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Thumbs down Re: Gas Stabilizer - had ethanol in it.

There ia also another problem with STABIL: If you disturb (move) the machine after adding it to the gas, you break the layer of protection for up to 8 hours, allowing moisture and dissolved aerosols to interchange with the fuel. Water gets in and Iso-Butane, Iso-propane, ester alcohols and other volatile componants to gas off. It may protect the gas in the tank, BUT it WILL NOT protect the evaporative and absorbative effects on gas in the carb. The only way to protect the carb is to drain thoroughly, and run the engine (even on choke) to completely empty the carb of fuel. 2 stroke oils are not a cure all either. My son's shop has 3 - 55 gallon barrels of wiped out 2 stroke carbs, due to stale or dead fuel destroying the passages and jets. 80% are damaged by 'white rust', decay of aluminum parts by phase separated fuel left in the carbs.

There ia also a produce out there that the manufacturer says will allow your engine to start on stale fuel and allow your engine to burn it off. yes you can BUT - this allows the bad fuel to deposit varnish on the intake valves and on the rings. The engine will run BUT - when it is shut off, these deposits can harden, causing bent valves, busted cams, ripped out valve guides and or hung valves. it can also lead to cylinder and valve guide scoring. BEWARE!
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