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Alternative Fuels An energy source alternative to using fossil fuels. Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, other than conventional fuels. Waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Alternative Fuels

Water produced in combustion


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  #11  
Old 12-10-2016, 07:08:29 PM
Lead Head
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

Read what I said more carefully: "The tags show where the base of that pole was located at that given year. The land sunk over 30 feet between 1925-1977".

The pole sunk with ground. The tags on the pole should where the ground surface - or the base of the pole WAS in those particular years. It's not a "crockashit" as you say. It's such a big issue that they've been carefully monitoring the ground surface movement in the San Joaquin Valley since the 1920s. Back before anyone cared about the environment. As early as the 1950s and 60s they were setting up extensometers and large spirit-level networks to track the land subsidence. It's so severe you can actually track the subsidence with GPS and see it from space with sensitive satellites. The subsidence tracks ground water usage and aquifer levels. Years with heavy rains and lots of surface water have far less subsidence since there is more aquifer recharge, and far less ground water pumping. Dry years see significant land subsidence.

The reason it's in a farmer's field, is because the San Joaquin Valley is a huge geographic area dominated by farmland, with very intense water demands on the local aquifers. You could try doing the same thing at a golf course, but you wouldn't see any change. You need large-scale pumping over an entire aquifer to see major land subsidence. In the 1960s, almost 1/4 of the entire U.S's pumped irrigation water was coming from this one area in California. They pumped enough water to drop the aquifer water levels over 150 feet.

This isn't some made up thing. It causes significant issues, since underground pipes, surface water canals, etc... are constantly buckling and breaking in the area. This is honestly one of the few large-scale environmental changes the average person could check for themselves. You can measure it yourself. Go pick up an old second-hand transit, put it on a known non-moving benchmark somewhere just outside the San Joaquin valley and shoot a measurement to something inside of it. Come back a year later, and you'll find that the point you measured is now ~6-14 inches lower than it was.

Here's a great page from the USGS on the issue. No BS, no nonsense. Just facts and figures about the land subsidence, the aquifer water levels and how they linked it to excessive ground water pumping. http://ca.water.usgs.gov/projects/ce...in-valley.html

Last edited by Lead Head; 12-10-2016 at 07:39:57 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-10-2016, 08:43:46 PM
Ken Karrow Ken Karrow is online now
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

Thanks for the interest. In the area I was referring to most of the water is last winter's snow in the mountains stored in resivors until needed. The people objecting were quite specific in stating that the water is lost forever.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2016, 11:59:01 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

California has real stupid water rules.

Interesting in one post we are told it takes for ever to recharge ground water, and in the next, if it rains lots the ground does not sink.

Aquifers cover large areas. Pumping water for a golf coarse, may be from the same aquifer. I am not familiar with California and can not wait for it to crack off and take all the crazy people with it towards Hawaii. Or better yet they vote to leave.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:08:44 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

I've been wanting to leave this wretched place for all of my adult life. That hasn't been in the cards yet, but hopefully soon. When I heard about this stupid state seceding it made me very happy! Let me leave first, then let these idiots leave our county! Then elections will no longer be such a close race between the moochers and the producers.
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:29:18 AM
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
California has real stupid water rules.

Interesting in one post we are told it takes for ever to recharge ground water, and in the next, if it rains lots the ground does not sink.

Aquifers cover large areas. Pumping water for a golf coarse, may be from the same aquifer. I am not familiar with California and can not wait for it to crack off and take all the crazy people with it towards Hawaii. Or better yet they vote to leave.
Please actually try reading my posts before you comment. You're embarassing yourself.

I quite clearly said that during years of heavy rain, there is more surface water available, so less ground water is pumped. During these years, the amount of land subsidence decreases. Dry years with little surface water and extensive pumping have lots of subsidence.

California has "stupid water rules" because they use an unsustainable amount of ground water. They simply don't get enough surface water to meet their demands so they have to pump. California produces half of the Country's fruits and vegetables, and is only behind Texas in livestock products. That kind of production requires an immense amount of water.
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:40:12 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Head View Post
Please actually try reading my posts before you comment. You're embarassing yourself.

I quite clearly said that during years of heavy rain, there is more surface water available, so less ground water is pumped. During these years, the amount of land subsidence decreases. Dry years with little surface water and extensive pumping have lots of subsidence.

California has "stupid water rules" because they use an unsustainable amount of ground water. They simply don't get enough surface water to meet their demands so they have to pump. California produces half of the Country's fruits and vegetables, and is only behind Texas in livestock products. That kind of production requires an immense amount of water.
Your Quote. "Years with heavy rains and lots of surface water have far less subsidence since there is more aquifer recharge, and far less ground water pumping. Dry years see significant land subsidence."

I see Aquifer Recharge in your quote.

Other states have little surface water. They have reasonable water rules.
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Old 12-11-2016, 03:12:00 PM
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
Your Quote. "Years with heavy rains and lots of surface water have far less subsidence since there is more aquifer recharge, and far less ground water pumping. Dry years see significant land subsidence."

I see Aquifer Recharge in your quote.
You're purposely twisting my words into what you want them to be. Yes, years with heavier rains will have more recharge, but it's small compared to the amount being pumped. The recharge by itself would not be enough to stop the subsidence. It's the reduced pumping.
Quote:
Other states have little surface water. They have reasonable water rules.
...and other states do not use as much water as California does. California's huge industry and immense agriculture has tremendous water demand. California produces 50% of the nations fruits and vegetables, and that requires a TON of water.

California represents 11% of the entire country's water usage. That's as much water as Indiana, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Montana and Virginia COMBINED. California needs those strict water rules because they use so much water compared to everyone else. Without those rules in place, you'd have HUGE issues.
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2016, 06:13:05 PM
akuna akuna is offline
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

California's crazy rules comment is not in reference to strict rules. It is about crazy rules.

Done, does not have much to do with original question.

Last edited by akuna; 12-11-2016 at 07:35:03 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2016, 07:20:34 PM
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

You have not elaborated as to what makes their rules crazy
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Old 12-11-2016, 08:34:12 PM
Ken Karrow Ken Karrow is online now
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Default Re: Water produced in combustion

Careful guys or we will be over in smoke, flames and gas. For the record I was talking about Colorado which has lots of water laws, most of them old. However the "lost forever" comments were coming out of the front range which is getting Californicated. I am glad to have left, the freedom of retirement is wonderful.
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