Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® General Discussion > Alternative Fuels
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Alternative Fuels An energy source alternative to using fossil fuels. Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, other than conventional fuels. Waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Alternative Fuels

Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?


this thread has 38 replies and has been viewed 14880 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-01-2009, 08:17:59 PM
Danny J Danny J is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 657
Thanks: 271
Thanked 331 Times in 171 Posts
Default Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

Okay I got bored and curious (or stupid) but the picture you see here is my diesel burning vegetable oil for fuel. The plastic jug in the picture is what the engine is burning for fuel now.

My brother Marc pulled a 2X4 on the pulley and it pulled and it handled the load well.

It is still running now and has been for about 2 hours.

Does it smell like french fries? Nah, smells different but still runs and does not smell like fast food!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	123a.jpg
Views:	605
Size:	71.3 KB
ID:	59787  
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 08-01-2009, 08:32:25 PM
Fred Van Hook's Avatar
Fred Van Hook Fred Van Hook is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 2,804
Thanks: 3,537
Thanked 9,346 Times in 1,561 Posts
Images: 480
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

I think if you clean the oil it is just fine. The cleaner the better. Most of these engines were made to run off anything. I have run my Listeroid off used vegeatable oil, citronella and used motor oil. Hey some times I even treat it with some diesel.
__________________
A Atheist will never be able to say, "I told you so!!"

Engine movies can be seen at: pileofiron
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-01-2009, 08:50:42 PM
oldironcollector's Avatar
oldironcollector oldironcollector is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Blue Ridge, Georgia, USA
Posts: 685
Thanks: 272
Thanked 440 Times in 145 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

What Kind of diesel is it? I have a couple of Kubotas that look like it.
Denny
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:55:17 PM
Richard W. Richard W. is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Molalla, Oregon
Posts: 714
Thanks: 896
Thanked 933 Times in 284 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

In cold weather you want to have diesel in it or at least a 50/50 mix or it won't start. That's what happened to the city busses in Portland Oregon.


Richard W.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-02-2009, 10:57:33 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 12,157
Thanks: 1,594
Thanked 5,436 Times in 3,528 Posts
Exclamation Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

Do NOT allow the engine to stand for more than a few weeks with the vegie oil in it. The oil goes rancid with stored engine heat, and will gum up your pump and injectors. We used Biodiesel in our lister last year, and the engine was not cleared out before the winter. it took hours to get that crud out of the injector and the pump. Just when you thought you had it fixed, it would stick again, and carb cleaner won't remove it!
Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:30:02 AM
diesciple diesciple is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Worcester UK
Posts: 104
Thanks: 12
Thanked 53 Times in 25 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

There is a large contingent of Lister CS / Listeroid diesel engine users running their engines on veg oil , waste but cleaned & filtered veg oil and biodiesel. Problems can occur as has been indicated but with certain precautions it shouldn't be a problem. Pre-heating the oil before it reaches the pump is a good idea as the greatly increased viscosity of veg oil can strain & ultimately damage pumps and injectors. Pre-heating also helps starting. These old mechanical injection slow speed diesels are now finding a new purpose in life using a potentially free fuel to generate power & heat in CHP systems.

Just a word of warning though about using veg oil in cars and other vehicles with common rail electronic diesel injection , it WILL wreck the pump and injectors sooner or later !! This is due to the high viscosity causing catastrophic high pressure within a system already operating at 20,000 psi !!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-02-2009, 11:54:54 AM
ronm ronm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fruita, Colorado USA
Posts: 3,950
Thanks: 2,671
Thanked 2,590 Times in 1,392 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

SVO (straight veg. oil) is not that good for fuel, it contains glycerin, which doesn't burn...this was discussed in the thread about Elden's Homebrew Hvid below.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-02-2009, 02:22:11 PM
Contaucreek's Avatar
Contaucreek Contaucreek is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Proudly Canadian
Posts: 2,454
Thanks: 2,028
Thanked 2,448 Times in 1,009 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

I tried my Lister SR1 on WVO just for the heck of it and yes it ran fine but for what it's worth my CS's were made to run on diesel and that's what I feed them.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-02-2009, 02:34:48 PM
Fred Van Hook's Avatar
Fred Van Hook Fred Van Hook is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 2,804
Thanks: 3,537
Thanked 9,346 Times in 1,561 Posts
Images: 480
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

Mythbusters ran a diesel car on filtered used vegetable oil and went from 33 to 30 mpg. The car ran great with no problems. If you want to run the oil thru the titration process it is a little labor intensive. Check it out on this site.
__________________
A Atheist will never be able to say, "I told you so!!"

Engine movies can be seen at: pileofiron
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-02-2009, 09:16:04 PM
Richard W. Richard W. is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Molalla, Oregon
Posts: 714
Thanks: 896
Thanked 933 Times in 284 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

If you go to the trouble of separating the glycerin from the fuel, the glycerin can be used in the old free standing stoves that have the carburetor on the back. Makes a nice fuel to heat the shop.

Richard W.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-03-2009, 02:22:52 AM
BTPost's Avatar
BTPost BTPost is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Excursion Inlet, Alaska USA 99850-0090
Posts: 4,791
Thanks: 552
Thanked 1,820 Times in 1,187 Posts
Images: 1
Talking Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Van Hook View Post
Mythbusters ran a diesel car on filtered used vegetable oil and went from 33 to 30 mpg.
Mythbusters never tried to use it in Minnesota during the wintertime......
__________________
Bruce in alaska
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BTPost For This Post:
  #12  
Old 08-04-2009, 02:24:19 AM
ListerDiesel's Avatar
ListerDiesel ListerDiesel is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Rushden, Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,618
Thanks: 44
Thanked 2,167 Times in 760 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

FWIW:

Costco (in the UK) used to sell vegetable cooking oil at quite a good price and our son used to buy it to run in his Vauxhall Combo van with 1.7 Isuzu engine. The price went up by stages as Costco realised that they were selling more and more for vehicle fuel and less for cooking. Eventually Philip gave up, as the engine wasn't happy on a 50/50 mix and needed regular runs with pure diesel to clear the injectors out.

Vegetable oil does NOT mix with mineral oil. A lot of folks find out the hard way with blocked oilways in the engine. Conventional solvents won't touch it as Andrew mentioned.

Yes, it will work, but if you take the hassle of getting it cleaned up and filtered, preheated and then the additional maintenance required, you'd be as well off staying with conventional diesel.

I know of a couple of plantations in Indonesia with some Bamford diesels that run on oil that they produce from the waste products of the stuff they grow, and even with almost free fuel they still reckon it is marginal given the extra costs of preparation and extra spares for the injection system.

I have never run any of my own diesels on it and won't be.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-04-2009, 02:29:41 PM
Danny J Danny J is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 657
Thanks: 271
Thanked 331 Times in 171 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

I have heard that canola oil is supposed to be good for use with a diesel engine. Is that true or did I hear wrong.

After the glycerin comment I am going to dump the veg oil and for the moment go back to diesel.

Thanks for all the comments and the great response to this thread!

Danny J
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-04-2009, 04:49:29 PM
Mikey4026's Avatar
Mikey4026 Mikey4026 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eatonville, Washington
Posts: 638
Thanks: 319
Thanked 246 Times in 150 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

I service a large standby generator for a large public transit facility. They ran a mix of biodiesel in their buses. For whatever reasons they had trouble with hard starting and plugged fuel filters. They dumped the fuel that was drained from the buses into the generator fuel tank. This was several thousand gallons of biodiesel. Within a short period of time, it plugged the fuel filetrs on the generator (go figure). The fuel filters were coated with a brown sticky substance and smelled like some kind of paint thinner. The day tank was full of solids swirling around on the bottom of the tank. They had to pump out all of the fuel and put in good old #2 off road fuel and add a pair of Raccor filters to collect the dirt and slime out of the fuel. This had to cost a large fortune, not counting the cost of disposing of the contaminated fuel.
None of the major engine manufacturers recommend the use of any mix of biodiesel in generator sets.
I have run it as a vehicle fuel without problems, but I would not recommend it in generators. The fuel use and exchange rate with fresh fuel is just to slow.
I have not had any problems with diesel fuel that is over thirty years old. I know Bruce (BTPOST) has run fuel left over from WW2 without any problems.
My 2 cents, which I hope is worth a nickle anyway!
Mikey
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-07-2009, 09:00:27 PM
Elden DuRand's Avatar
Elden DuRand Elden DuRand is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Port St. Joe, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,457
Thanks: 11,999
Thanked 7,087 Times in 2,774 Posts
Images: 11
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

Danny:

I've tried Canola oil in the Homebrew Hvid and, though the Hvid engine is not a true Diesel (non-pressure fuel system but compression ignition), it would run on it but I had to dilute it with about 50% kerosene (parrafin) to get the engine to run well.

The glycerin in the veggie oil also caused choking amounts of coke to be deposited on the exhaust valve stem and in the exhaust passage.

Take care - Elden
http://www.oldengine.org/members/durand
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-15-2009, 11:16:51 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 12,157
Thanks: 1,594
Thanked 5,436 Times in 3,528 Posts
Exclamation Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

I recently talked to a gentleman who swore on Biodiesel, and how great his Ford truck ran on it. He had an icecream stand opposite our engine display at the Sussex County Fair this year. I told him about the problems we encountered, and the findings of a diesel injector mechanic member of our club had found coming into his shop after biodiesel exposure. He told me in no uncertain terms that his Ford loved the stuff, and gave him better fuel economy than good ole #2, That nite he drove up to his stand to load up for the nite, when there was a tremendous BANG from under the hood, a loud report fron the exhaust, and a sudden appearance of a klarge dent from inside the hood of the truck. A few seconds later, a trickle of biodiesel made it's appearance from under the truck, and grew larger as we watched. The engine was strangely quiet! Turns out the fuel injector seized, and then proceded to blow itself off the engine block, taking fuel lines and hoses with it, as well as pieces of the mounts on the engine! The truck was back to work the next night, but with a new block and fuel pump, and a tankful of #2! Seems that Ford doesn't recommend bio, and didn't want to warrenty the work replacing the block and pump. As the bio was purchased at a station out west, as pump fuel, seems that a little lawsuit is at hand, for the $4,500 in replacement parts and labor! The gentleman doesn't swear by bio any more, he swears AT it!
Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-16-2009, 03:56:28 PM
R. Goodacre R. Goodacre is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Boston, Lincolnshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 67
Thanks: 21
Thanked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

I currently run a VW Polo (2001) with the 1.9 SDI engine ,(non turbo) and it says in the owners manual that it will run fine on up to a 50/50 mix of ordinary diesel and rapeseed oil, without any modification, but any more than 50/50 will result in difficult starting. I assume from the way the manual reads that in Germany you can fill up from the pumps with rapeseed oil? Bit more difficult than that in the UK.
I've never had anything but pure diesel in it, and wont be taking the chance.

However, if I had an old Lister or Petter or simarlar, say, on a sawbench that was already worn out, smoking heavy etc, then I would try veg oil, (new) just to see if it would have it. Also, if my car was about knackered then I'd maybe try veg oil in it.

But I need my car to be reliable and last as long as possible so will be sticking to the pure diesel.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-16-2009, 04:10:12 PM
Tim Rostar
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

ive been running bio diesel now for four years and i think its better fuel...if you get your fryer grease for free its worth doing.....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-16-2009, 07:07:05 PM
Walter Neumann jr Walter Neumann jr is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Yorkton, Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 819
Thanks: 792
Thanked 508 Times in 283 Posts
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Do NOT allow the engine to stand for more than a few weeks with the vegie oil in it. The oil goes rancid
Andrew
i thought you were goin to tell us it could get food poisoning
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-16-2009, 09:15:29 PM
Fred Van Hook's Avatar
Fred Van Hook Fred Van Hook is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 2,804
Thanks: 3,537
Thanked 9,346 Times in 1,561 Posts
Images: 480
Default Re: Diesel fuel or vegetable oil for fuel, your thoughts?

There are four families in Green Hill Indiana that have been running WVO in the VW Jetta TDI's for 4 years. They all went together and bought a Apple Seed Processor and self taught themselfs the tytration process. They fiqure the first gallon cost them about $10,000.00. After that they made WVO in Jan. 2006 for 47 cents per gallon. In the process the ingredients used are cooking oil, lye and methanol. The glycerin that was left over was spread on gardens and flower beds. (biodegradable) They were making enough fuel for them selfs and a friend of mine that also heated a 3000 sq. ft. shop with a boiler and they keep 400 gallon in reserve. They do have to mix fuels in the winter to avoid jelling. I just notice the engines in the TDI's are a little noisey. The emmission from the exhaust is carbon dioxide and water. They have kits they use to test the cooking oil before they pump it into their tanks. (they say it is easier to do that than take the oil back after dark) A cordless drill is used to transfer the used oil. McDonalds won't let them have their oil because of liability and they use the oil for themselfs in delivery trucks. Here is a link: ecogeek I have run diesel, used cooking oil, used motor,hydraulic,tranny oil and citronella in my Metro with no problems yet. (400 hrs.) I have heard if the fuel is clean and proper maintenance these will run for over 100,000 hrs.
__________________
A Atheist will never be able to say, "I told you so!!"

Engine movies can be seen at: pileofiron
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Diesel fuel types mmarzullo Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines 24 11-16-2008 07:49:39 PM
Diesel fuel in older diesel engines (bio-Diesel) Andrew Mackey Alternative Fuels 2 04-18-2008 05:22:05 PM
$$$ how much diesel fuel per hour? mav7771 Onan Generators 3 08-23-2005 04:19:58 PM
Diesel vs. #2 Fuel Oil Steve Dawkins Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 9 02-25-2005 07:01:45 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03:54 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277