Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters Antique lighting fixtures, bulbs, switches, meters and controls.

Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters

"Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters


this thread has 14 replies and has been viewed 1553 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-10-2018, 09:13:44 AM
Dwayne Oxford Dwayne Oxford is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Holladay, TN, USA
Posts: 581
Thanks: 571
Thanked 65 Times in 50 Posts
Default "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Anybody know where to buy them? They're the only ones I've found that'll light the 50 watt u-bulbs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Certified starter.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	87.0 KB
ID:	300163  
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:04:06 PM
Frank DeWitt Frank DeWitt is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bloomfield, New York, USA
Posts: 734
Thanks: 143
Thanked 644 Times in 290 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

this might be some help http://nemesis.lonestar.org/referenc...t/starter.html
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank DeWitt For This Post:
  #3  
Old 01-10-2018, 01:33:27 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is online now
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Floyd, AR, USA
Posts: 2,967
Thanks: 340
Thanked 1,421 Times in 925 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Florescent lighting is changing VERY fast. T12's are done, others are following fast. Things are going to be disappearing off the market. If you're really stuck on that brand of starter, you might start haunting Ebay and flea markets. If you just like the fixture but you can live without the flash-flash start, I think you can get a compatible electronic ballast that would be instant start.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pegasuspinto For This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-10-2018, 01:39:49 PM
rawpower2 rawpower2 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Elyria, Ohio
Posts: 11
Thanks: 3
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

McMaster- Carr lists them.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rawpower2 For This Post:
  #5  
Old 01-10-2018, 01:52:09 PM
Odin Odin is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Elmira, New York
Posts: 1,537
Thanks: 531
Thanked 1,258 Times in 655 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

T12 lights were obsoleted back in 2010, around here at least the local utility provided a subsidy to upgrade to T8 or better.

Now they are coming around wanting to replace the T8 lights as well with LEDs.

Might be able to find LED tubes to put in the fixture and rewire it to support them. Then the starters won't be necessary anymore, but you'll still have an instant-start fixture as well as much lower energy consumption.

Local hardware stores might still sell the starters if you don't want to upgrade yet. I know I have seen a few places around here that have them on the shelves.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Odin For This Post:
  #6  
Old 01-10-2018, 07:04:37 PM
DustyBar DustyBar is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: near Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,958
Thanks: 1,505
Thanked 1,587 Times in 690 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin View Post
...Might be able to find LED tubes to put in the fixture and rewire it to support them...
Rewiring isn't required. There are LED tubes that directly replace the 4' florescent bulb without any change to the fixture or ballast. Some of the LEDs replace T8 only and some other replace T8 and T12. I believe they only work in fixtures that already have the electronic ballast. I bought the T8/T12 replacements at Menards for about $10 each. I bought the T8 only replacement at the same place as cheap as $6 each. I really like them.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DustyBar For This Post:
  #7  
Old 01-10-2018, 08:40:19 PM
Odin Odin is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Elmira, New York
Posts: 1,537
Thanks: 531
Thanked 1,258 Times in 655 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

The efficiency is poor if you don't rewire. Results in a double conversion penalty, making the LEDs take very nearly as much energy as the Fluorescents they replace and the only advantages remaining being instant cold start and longer bulb life.

Better to at least remove the ballast and use lamps that are directly line powered in order to have only one conversion loss, or replace the entire fixture with one purpose-built for LED service in order to have the best possible efficiency.

Few weeks ago I did the quotes for such a project at work. Purpose-built LED fixtures, while a bit higher up front cost, ended up cutting the power cost in half compared to bulb + ballast retrofits, and 1/3rd of what the T8 Fluorescents consume. I'm now partway through installing these new fixtures, and wondering if maybe they are a bit brighter than they needed to be. Could have saved even more money by going one size smaller. Oh well, they all have dimmer support if I want it.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Odin For This Post:
  #8  
Old 01-10-2018, 08:56:51 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,016
Thanks: 9,924
Thanked 2,841 Times in 1,911 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

If this is a classic fixture old enough to have a starter I overwhelmingly like to keep them as original as possible!

Unless you are lighting up a wearhouse full of them, the difference in cost of operation is trivial.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vanman For This Post:
  #9  
Old 01-19-2018, 04:26:57 PM
DustyBar DustyBar is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: near Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,958
Thanks: 1,505
Thanked 1,587 Times in 690 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin View Post
...or replace the entire fixture with one purpose-built for LED service in order to have the best possible efficiency...
I despise the way purpose-built LEDs are sold at Menards, Lowes and Home Depot. Put up a couple dozen of their lights and one of them is sure to fail. These stores only stock that style of fixture or color for two weeks and then on to another brand. You are stuck buying another fixture to replace the failed one that will never match the rest of them. If they last 20 years as advertised you will have to look at that reminder for that many years too.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DustyBar For This Post:
  #10  
Old 01-24-2018, 12:24:56 PM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Eastford, Connecticut
Posts: 872
Thanks: 646
Thanked 177 Times in 136 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Few weeks ago I did the quotes for such a project at work. Purpose-built LED fixtures, while a bit higher up front cost, ended up cutting the power cost in half compared to bulb + ballast retrofits, and 1/3rd of what the T8 Fluorescents consume.
Are you saying the energy cost is lower with purpose built LEDs than if you just replace flourescents with LEDs and remove the ballast? It seems to me this would be the same thing.

I have replaced my flourescents this way and am very happy, so far. Brighter, no buzzing and hopefully they will last a long, long time.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-11-2018, 06:46:14 AM
NDmeterman NDmeterman is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Posts: 289
Thanks: 765
Thanked 435 Times in 157 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin View Post
T12 lights were obsoleted back in 2010...
Well, no wonder. The (leased) building I work in has a 20x80 room with 15 8' fluorescent fixtures, and the only fully operational ones are the two that were recently retrofitted for T8! It's mainly a hallway between several sections of the building, as well as housing two machines we now seldom use. Of the remaining ones, there are only 2-3 others that light up when they feel like it. Is there any danger in letting them run in that condition for extended periods of time?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-11-2018, 11:22:25 AM
Odin Odin is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Elmira, New York
Posts: 1,537
Thanks: 531
Thanked 1,258 Times in 655 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanman View Post
If this is a classic fixture old enough to have a starter I overwhelmingly like to keep them as original as possible!

Unless you are lighting up a wearhouse full of them, the difference in cost of operation is trivial.
True, the way it is used matters a lot. Something that is in good shape as an original fixture and has sentimental or historic value, absolutely keep it original if possible.

But a practical working fixture with no particular attachments or value to it, the money savings are not to be underestimated.

I'm finding that current generation LED fixtures consume roughly 1/4th the energy of a T12, and 1/3rd the energy of a T8 to achieve comparable light outputs in addition to much greater lamp lifetimes, to the tune of 30 years or more assuming the driver circuit lasts that long. While a 4x F40T12 office light might only consume a few dollars a month in electrical costs, it does add up in addition to bulb replacements every 3-5 years for the use cases I've examined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDmeterman View Post
Well, no wonder. The (leased) building I work in has a 20x80 room with 15 8' fluorescent fixtures, and the only fully operational ones are the two that were recently retrofitted for T8! It's mainly a hallway between several sections of the building, as well as housing two machines we now seldom use. Of the remaining ones, there are only 2-3 others that light up when they feel like it. Is there any danger in letting them run in that condition for extended periods of time?
Actually, there is an elevated risk of electrical fire. A lot of people don't realize this, but Fluorescent lights will often continue to glow well past their rated end of life. People see them glowing and assume they are still good, when they aren't. It stresses the ballasts, causing both magnetic and electronic types to run excessively hot. Eventually the ballast fails, which in my encounters with it has ranged from merely spewing smoke to bursting into flames with a shower of sparks on everything beneath.

Barring cold weather conditions, the tubes should ignite fairly quickly and smoothly. If they don't they are likely end of life and should be replaced to prevent the ballasts from catching fire. And around here at least, T12 bulbs especially the 8 foot F96T12 ones are becoming difficult to obtain.

Some of the costs to upgrade from T12 or T8 Fluorescents to LEDs are covered by energy conservation subsidies, electrical supply wholesalers would know the details of what programs are available to you and how to benefit from them. They will often contribute part of the hardware and installation costs. Just make sure you aren't getting dodgy chinese quality fixtures installed by a contractor that shouldn't be allowed in your building. I have had that happen, the result was so much RF coming from the lights that the radio in the machine shop no longer worked. Had to redo a fair amount of it with better quality hardware.

Last edited by Odin; 01-11-2018 at 11:38:00 AM. Reason: Clarifications.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Odin For This Post:
  #13  
Old 01-19-2018, 12:18:27 AM
len k len k is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manchester, New Hampshire
Posts: 18,944
Thanks: 641
Thanked 7,265 Times in 5,170 Posts
Default Re: "Certified" Brand Fluorescent Starters

If fixtures are real old the ballasts may not be thermally protected ( P type). Then as balast runs if it starts to overheat the tar melts and starts to run out. Had some that started smoking and dripping tar after running all day, guessing it was summer.

So now when I mount up fixtures in cellar I mount them with a 2x4 wood spacer between them and wood rafters . And I put that spacer far from the ballast , so ballast heat won't heat combustionable wood rafters they are mounted to. I likely should use drywall spacers , but I had wood spacers.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Fluorescent Starters Dwayne Oxford Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters 24 02-23-2017 08:46:04 AM
Certified Data Desktop Computer Problems Bill Sherlock Computer, Camera and ISP Problems 18 01-14-2013 11:22:54 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06:37 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277