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Antique Farm Tractors Vintage farm tractors on rubber tires with various implements. Ford, John Deere, Oliver, McCormick and more.

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Dyno info


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  #1  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:35:04 AM
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Lightbulb Dyno info

Yesterday we bought this nice PTO M&W dyno. it was consigned to a sale of an old GM Garage in town that was selling out after nearly 75 years. That was pretty interesting in itself. lots of NOS vehicle parts back into the 50s.
It seems in nice shape. but the oil has been drained out. its had red ATF in it, is that what it should have? (gonna be a soaker to refill, looks like it needs 10 gallons+ )
We're also wondering about Figuring the HP. theres 3 rings on the big gauge "HP @ xxx RPM" is that acurate for PTO hp? i thought being around dynos with jackshafts for flat belts that a wheel chart was needed to figure out the actual HP. i spun it over a bit yesterday with a small Farmall tractor and the gauges work. So i was wondering if anyone had anymore info or tips to get us going
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:40:24 AM
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Default Re: Dyno info

I think that M&W is still in business. Drop them a note and they may still have some info on your machine.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:04:22 AM
Tom Runty Tom Runty is offline
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Default Re: Dyno info

I've pulled on a tractor dyno over at Crown Point a few times with a 19HP Port Huron engine and a small jackshaft. The horsepower readings are up in the 70's, and the engine is hardly working yet. But the narrow, flat pulleys and narrow belt have given all they will, and the belt gets thrown off.

Bottom line in my experience is you may get some high horsepower readings compared to prony brake calcs. On the other hand, it's a much more portable and efficient operation, and comparative readings should be valid. Just need a well-anchored jackshaft with pulleys with good crowns, and a well-dressed belt big enough for the horsepower you are working with. Using screw-type load binders on the jackshaft is helpful in fine-tuning the lineup, too.

Tom R.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:49:05 PM
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Default Re: Dyno info

Colin:
I typed in PTO M&W dyno instruction manual at Google, and I found this at AntiqueTractors.com.

M&W trailer mounted dyno. Model P-400 max 125 hp@540 and 240@1000 pto. w/original owners manual and conversion wheel. excellent-no leaks.

Click on this link, and check it out:

http://www.antiquetractors.com/contents/adpic70.htm

Maybe they'll copy off the owners manual for you?

Gary K
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:32:06 PM
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Default Re: Dyno info

Colin,
It should be pretty accurate, unless it is way out of calibration. The big gauge just reads torque and if I remember right, it should actually give you the torque in foot-lbs. The 3 rings are accurate, if you are really running that rpm. If you are not running the exact rpm, you need to do the calculation yourself. HP = torque*rpm/5250. This is how the John Deere guys claim they get 90 HP out of an "A". They pull it down until the PTO speed is about 300 rpm and then they read the "HP at 540 rpm" scale. Of course, the Farmall guys would never do that, right?
Anyway, it should be as accurate as any prony brake, since that is all it really is.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:46:01 PM
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Default Re: Dyno info

Right on Jim.... A friend sold one Just like that a few years ago.... They were getting some Pretty Fabulous HP Readings untill someone explained to them they had to Read the scale at 540 RPM Or do the calculations...

Suddenly their D John Deeres went from 80 Hp down to about 40...

Anyhow the novelty wore off and you don't even see it any more...
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:16:10 PM
K D Redd K D Redd is offline
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Default Re: Dyno info

These unit were used a lot to break-in engines after a rebuild. Put the tractor with the newly rebuilt engine on the unit and run the tractor at about 1/4 of it's rated PTO hp for an hour with pulse loading with the load handle to help seat the rings. Do another hour at 1/2 PTO HP and another at 3/4 PTO HP and the tractor was ready to go to the field and work at it's rated HP whether PTO or Draw-bar. Only later did the tractor puller use the unit for bragging purposes.

Kent
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:38:50 PM
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Default Re: Dyno info

We found out today the oil wasn't drained out, it leaked. but the owner swore it was full yesterday morning, and that it was always stored indoors So after an our or so of work pulling out the cooling core, soldering a tube and sticking it back in its ready for oil. planning on geting some tomorrow.
We kind of wanting it for what Kent explained, running in tractors after motor work. but it will be fun for comparing identical motors. or motors that are the same but just have a bigger bore. IH offered an 1/8th" over bore for pretty well anything back then.
Gary i searched around a little more and found a thread on the Red power fourm. theres a guy on there that specializes in them, so hopefully i can contact him.
We had a Super MD on a dyno along time ago, and it pulled just under 54hp, and they're rated just under 50, so thats pretty close, not sure if the pistons are bigger but we're pretty sure the pump is stepped up a bit. Our 706 and 806 IH both did 10hp over there ratings on a dyno where we had motor work done on them. 86 and 105. they also seem in the ball park from what other guys have got on there tractors
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Old 04-27-2009, 08:58:35 PM
Dale Miner Dale Miner is offline
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Default Re: Dyno info

I've pulled my 65 on three hydraulic dynos, and one prony brake. I feel confidant that the operators of all four units were doing the calculations correctly. With a full fire on the hydraulics (two) and on the prony, it pulled within a couple of horsepower on all three units. On the third hydraulic pull, the pull was really to use up some of the left over fire from an economy run, and the pressure was down about ten lbs from the other three pulls, and the horsepower was down about 15 hp.

I think the hydraulic dynos can be as accurate as the prony if the operator is accurate in his calculations.

Getting the power to the dyno is a challenge. With a 40 inch pulley @ approx 250 rpm, that means an 18 in pulley to come close to 540 rpm. Holding horspower in the range of 100 requires a pretty good belt on an 18 inch pulley. I've tried sawing with the 65 here at home with an 8 inch belt (20 in pulley), and could not get the power from the engine to the blade . We now use a 12 inch belt when we saw, and have no problems.

One of the hydraulic dynos I pulled on belonged to the Kramers and they had a gearbox that increased the speed going into the dyno, allowing the use of a larger pulley, 30 inch I think, and I believe an 8 or 10 inch belt. This arrangement had no problems holding the belt during the pull.


Somewhere I have a circular sliderule that came with an M&W dyno that makes the off rpm calculations easier. Have'nt seen it in twenty years or so (and one house move) but will look.

Later,
Dale Miner
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Old 05-01-2009, 06:30:55 PM
Tom Railsback Tom Railsback is offline
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Default Re: Dyno info

I think it's the same as a Case dyno. I have copies of the manual if you'll send me your mailing address--no charge.
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:59:10 AM
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Default Re: Dyno info

These are not a prony brake, all they are is a big hydraulic pump, w/a restrictor valve & a guage to read pressure, calibrated as HP at a given RPM.
As Dale said, there was a slide-rule type device to convert other RPM readings to correct HP. Any decent hydraulic oil should work, we used JD Hy-Gard at the JD shop...go figure...be sure to use the water hookup if you tie onto big HP or long runs, unless it's an IH, they will never work it hard enough to heat the oil. M&W is no longer in business, but they sold a million of those ol' dynos to ag dealers. Somebody may be still supplying parts, I don't know.
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:40:04 PM
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Default Re: Dyno info

Forgot about this thread for a bit. got a copied manual off ebay last week. but thanks for offering Tom. could use a slide rule or wheel for the HP. theres a little diagram in the manual but its hard to read.
had a Super WD9 on there a week or so ago. smoked er down pretty good. but not for too long since the water wasnt hooked up. and the tractor was getting a bit hot. so ive got a thermostat ordered for it. will be fun to get some other tractors on there. Ron we got enough IH power here to burn the oil right out of it
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:13:15 AM
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Default Re: Dyno info

(Thought I posted last night, but it disappeared into cyberspace somewhere...)
Just kiddin' Colin, I've been known to own a red one here & there myself...you will definitely need water for long runs. We used to dyno 4430's, most of them were about 135-140 HP. About 5 min. under full load would have the oil temp in the red, w/water on full blast...if you really want to impress bystanders, a big tractor will raise one wheel of the dyno off the ground if you really tie her down hard...
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Old 12-31-2018, 10:47:47 AM
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Default Re: Dyno info

Does anyone have a calculation of Hydraulic pressure and RPM to figure the HP? Or do you have to have the M&W slide rule?
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Old 12-31-2018, 08:47:10 PM
eddie bedwell eddie bedwell is offline
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Default Re: Dyno info

Hi Team,
used to use this formula from a Cat Engine Installation Guide Handbook at The Cat Dealership.

Hydraulic Horsepower = Gallons Per Minute x PSI divided by 1714

Hope it helps,
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:18:00 PM
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Default Re: Dyno info

I have a little M&W like that. I could be talked out of it. PM me.
Dave
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