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Weldanpower 225 not charging


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  #1  
Old 04-26-2014, 11:12:32 AM
41Briggs 41Briggs is offline
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Default Weldanpower 225 not charging

I recently Picked up a nice Lincoln Weldanpower 225 model AC225/DC210/6 its the one with the 16hp Cast iron Briggs I/C one lung engine. The machine is in great shape, It runs excellent welds nice but the battery is not charging and it has no other means of starting it. From what I can tell on the schematics It is supposed to have a flywheel alternator on the engine that provides power to charge the battery and excite the generator. There are NO wires coming from behind the flywheel at all just the engines magnetron magneto above the flywheel. The Rectifier is present the battery charging board is present everything looks complete and untouched. There is a wire running from the positive battery terminal to a toggle switch that excites the generator as the generator does not have an exciter. any suggestions? is it worth trying to find and replace the flywheel alternator if I can still find one? Its a 326437 engine
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Old 04-27-2014, 10:29:58 AM
dkamp dkamp is offline
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Default Re: Weldanpower 225 not charging

Hi Briggs!

Okay, so I'm betting that you can find your way around a Briggs... the engines used in welder-generators typically aren't that much different from a standard engine, with exception that some are started using the generator's exciter winding, but IIRC your Weldanpower has a ring-gear starter. The other difference, is that since the prime mover is running a generator/welder, it's not unusual for the welder's generating system to be used to provide battery charging... since it's already generating in the first place. Sometimes, the excitation circuit wiring not only builds excitation, it also flows in the opposite direction to charge the battery.

The B&S parts breakdown suggests something like 5 different charging stators, where several use a dual-output (one for regulated battery charging, the other for unregulated lighting), and others are just charging coils... sometimes an external regulator unit is required, other times, the regulation electronics (being fairly minimal) are integrated into the stator assembly. Typically, the stator assembly is NOT physically included with the ignition coil assembly, as the stator would usually be on the inner radius, ignition on the outer, but you probably know these better than I.

In any event, Miller's document on the welder-generator would be the best resource. For some reason, I'm unable to download the Miller manual, but you can find the page here:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...s/support.aspx

And the document would most likely be this:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...OLN0/BK291.pdf

There's usually a schematic diagram, it would identify what you're facing in terms of wiring. By your description of the excitation circuit switch, it kinda sounds like something failed in the past, and someone cobbled in a simple fix, and in doing so, probably figured it was easier to just put a battery charger on the unit every so often than devote any resources to making the charging circuit work. With an electronic Magnetron system, no battery is required to get ignition power, so all they needed the battery for was to crank the engine over and provide a moment of excitation.

For what it's worth, I have a similar situation with the Miller Bobcat in my service truck- it's battery charging system is inoperative. It's an old unit, the lower chassis rusted out many years ago, fracturing the fuel tank, so I hoisted it up, removed the original sheet metal chassis, and fabricated a new frame, eliminated the fuel tank and battery (made more clearance under it for better cooling, and allows me to store long pieces of steel under it). The generating output is connected to a load center on my truck, which includes a battery charger to charge a much larger battery for running my service body's lighting, a 500w inverter (charging power tools, running an LED trouble light, etc), and of course, cranking the generator... and I remote-mounted a different (larger) fuel tank elsewhere under the truck. I like it better than the original arrangement...
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:18:27 AM
41Briggs 41Briggs is offline
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Default Re: Weldanpower 225 not charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkamp View Post
Hi Briggs!

Okay, so I'm betting that you can find your way around a Briggs... the engines used in welder-generators typically aren't that much different from a standard engine, with exception that some are started using the generator's exciter winding, but IIRC your Weldanpower has a ring-gear starter. The other difference, is that since the prime mover is running a generator/welder, it's not unusual for the welder's generating system to be used to provide battery charging... since it's already generating in the first place. Sometimes, the excitation circuit wiring not only builds excitation, it also flows in the opposite direction to charge the battery.

The B&S parts breakdown suggests something like 5 different charging stators, where several use a dual-output (one for regulated battery charging, the other for unregulated lighting), and others are just charging coils... sometimes an external regulator unit is required, other times, the regulation electronics (being fairly minimal) are integrated into the stator assembly. Typically, the stator assembly is NOT physically included with the ignition coil assembly, as the stator would usually be on the inner radius, ignition on the outer, but you probably know these better than I.

In any event, Miller's document on the welder-generator would be the best resource. For some reason, I'm unable to download the Miller manual, but you can find the page here:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...s/support.aspx

And the document would most likely be this:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...OLN0/BK291.pdf

There's usually a schematic diagram, it would identify what you're facing in terms of wiring. By your description of the excitation circuit switch, it kinda sounds like something failed in the past, and someone cobbled in a simple fix, and in doing so, probably figured it was easier to just put a battery charger on the unit every so often than devote any resources to making the charging circuit work. With an electronic Magnetron system, no battery is required to get ignition power, so all they needed the battery for was to crank the engine over and provide a moment of excitation.
Thanks for your reply,
I understand how magnetron ignition functions I have also been on Lincolns website and gone through the PDF manuals and diagrams for my machine they show no part numbers and aside from the schematic showing the engines flywheel charging coil being wired into the generator their is no other mention of one or any part numbers for one. I guess for now best I can do is get a Deepcycle battery and keep charging it. I have also thought of adding the flywheel alternator and regulator on and making a separate charging system for the battery not using the welders existing circuitry
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:49:08 AM
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MoRo MoRo is offline
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Default Re: Weldanpower 225 not charging

You didn't say, so I'm going to ask: Does the battery not crank your engine after prolonged downtime? Does it restart well after it's been run? Have you checked the voltages at the battery terminals?
I ask because, sometimes, a diode will fail. The system will charge the battery while the engine is running but will, also, put a slow draw on the battery when the engine is stopped. I have a single cylinder Tecumseh on my Miller that acts this way. I can restart the engine as many times as I need to during the day. My welder will sit idle for weeks at a time and the battery will be nearly dead when I come to use the machine. I have been taking a cable off the battery when I'm done with the welder and it has started every time.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:55:06 AM
41Briggs 41Briggs is offline
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Default Re: Weldanpower 225 not charging

Well it seems to be fine as long as I remember to turn off the switch that excites the generator. It seems to sit at about 12.2 volts when the engine is running
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