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RIDER ERICSSON 6" - Brick - Cuir Piston Gasket


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  #1  
Old 08-02-2017, 05:01:49 PM
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Default RIDER ERICSSON 6" - Brick - Cuir Piston Gasket

Hello to all.

Today my first hot-air engine arrived ... it's the right time, today in Italy there are 100 ° F.

I do not know these engines.

It's a nice engine:
- all original
- cast iron without breaks
- leverages without wear (worked very little).

Only the furnace grill is missing (not a problem) and refractory bricks.

Do refractory bricks be placed in the upper and lower section of the oven?
How to mount?
I've read that I have to leave a gap with the iron cast iron to prevent oxidation.
Does anyone know how to do?

I have to rebuild the leather piston seal, can someone tell me the outer diameter and the thickness?
Is leather first cooked in oil?

386/5000
Last two questions, my curiosity:
- the serial number is 15957, roughly corresponds to what year?
- the engine was redecorated (years ago) in light brown, but below I see a green paint, this looks original, is very old, there are no more layers.
There are also yellow / white decorations.
Could it be Green? Were not they just Red?

Regards
Davide


Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr


Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr


Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr


Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2017, 05:42:17 PM
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Brian Triebner Brian Triebner is offline
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Bricks where placed in upper and lower furnace. There is a rectangular spacer that fits between the upper and lower layers of bricks to hold in place. I will try to post some picture of our 5" Ericsson.
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Old 08-02-2017, 05:51:14 PM
Brent Rowell Brent Rowell is offline
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Davide,
Congratulations on your fine engine. I am curious--how did it find its way to Italy?

I will try to answer your questions and I'm sure others will respond as well. Regarding dating, the serial no. indicates around 1906 although it is impossible to say exactly.

The refractory bricks were molded so they fit together like pieces of a puzzle inside the firebox. They fit in both upper and lower halves and are partly held in place by rectangular iron rings (these are often missing). But the engine will run fine without them, and if you want to insulate the firebox, just line it on the inside with thick refractory "wool" which is used by iron foundries.

You can buy ready-made leathers for your engine here in the U.S.; they are very nicely made by Don Worley in Pennsylvania. I can send you his email address. Or you can try to make your own using very soft leather. Leather is not cooked in oil, but softened with a leather treatment if needed. But if you make your own, they are first soaked in water before forming using the engine piston and cylinder. After letting it dry inside the cylinder it can be soaked in oil designed for treating and softening leather.

The yellow and white decorations are not original. Most engines were black with red flywheel but some green-painted engines are also known.
Brent
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:04:23 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Davide, nice looking engine. I like the brown with red wheel. Good luck with your gem and post a video if possible when your pumping some water. Thank you
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:31:17 AM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Triebner View Post
Bricks where placed in upper and lower furnace. There is a rectangular spacer that fits between the upper and lower layers of bricks to hold in place. I will try to post some picture of our 5" Ericsson.
Hi Brian,
I imagine it is difficult to understand the structure from a photo.

A drawing, a sketch, might be sufficient.

Thanks for your help
Davide

---------- Post added at 08:31:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22:21 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Rowell View Post
Davide,
Congratulations on your fine engine. I am curious--how did it find its way to Italy?
..............
Brent
Hi Brent,
Then .... I bought the engine in England, and there it came decades ago I do not know where.

Interestingly, your explanation about the leather seal, I'd like to try to rebuild it.
You have no indications on the diameter?
However, please give me the address of the supplier of leather seals.

Thank you

Davide
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:03:25 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Here are the photos from Brian's 5"

J
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:01:15 PM
Brent Rowell Brent Rowell is offline
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Davide,
The diameter of the leather should be same as the inside diameter of the cylinder plus a "lip" of about 12 mm on the sides. Thickness varies but maybe around 2-3 mm. I will send you by PM the email of the man who makes these.
Brent
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:13:25 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - leather piston gasket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Iron View Post
Here are the photos from Brian's 5"

J
Now more or less, I know what to do with refractory bricks.
No I'm passionate about this work: Headbang:, but it should be done!

---------- Post added at 10:13:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07:38 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Rowell View Post
Davide,
The diameter of the leather should be same as the inside diameter of the cylinder plus a "lip" of about 12 mm on the sides. Thickness varies but maybe around 2-3 mm. I will send you by PM the email of the man who makes these.
Brent
Hi Brent,
thank you for your help.

I claim that I did not disassemble the piston, at the moment I have other restorations in progress, but I would like to try to rebuild the gasket.

You talk about 12 mm, but Diameter Piston + (12x2)?

Look at my drawing, right?

Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:04:51 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

New leather from Don Worley in PA
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:22:43 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - leather piston gasket

Davide,
Your drawing is correct piston + (12x2), although I've seen some a little larger or smaller. I sent you Don Worley's email also.
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:55:24 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Hi,
Today I removed some pieces to see what to do.
As expected the furnace is OK, only the refractory bricks are missing.

The cold cylinder, power piston and displacement piston are OK.
Finally I saw the leather gasket:
It is a little thin and dry and where the strip on the cylinder (now is about 1/16 ").

The hot cylinder has the corroded bottom.
There is some hole, I hope to solve with a weld, hope of not having to be forced to replace the entire bottom.


The water pump is perfect!
I tried pumping manually, a nice stream of water and no leak .... almost did not disassemble it.

Now I have two questions:
- I see many engines with brass / bronze nameplate and serial number over 20.000.
My engine has an aluminum nameplate (at least I think) and serial number 15.957, is it normal?

- more or less now I understand the functioning of these engines,
but I doubt remains:
what is the purpose of the valve located between cylinder hot and cylinder cold?

Thank you all for the precious help, and forgive my bad English.

Regards
Davide


Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr


Senza titolo by Davide Coloretti, su Flickr



---------- Post added at 09:55:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53:00 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Rowell View Post
Davide,
Your drawing is correct piston + (12x2), although I've seen some a little larger or smaller. I sent you Don Worley's email also.
Hi,
I did not receive any private message, and no mail, but I found Don Worley in this forum, we now contact.

Thank you
Davide
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:12:47 PM
Brent Rowell Brent Rowell is offline
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Davide,
Sorry you did not get my message, but it's good you are now in touch with Don. Regarding your questions, I have never seen another aluminum plate, so it's very unusual, perhaps a reproduction(?). The serial no. should also be stamped into the top of the cylinder and these numbers should match. I'm not sure which valve you are referring to, but there is a valve that releases air and another one to drain the engine's water jacket. The air valve is left open when heating the engine to drive out any accumulated moisture, then it is closed for running. Good luck with the welding--I think you are talking about the displacer piston. A hole in this piston will definitely affect its running.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:07:52 AM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Rowell View Post
Davide,
Sorry you did not get my message, but it's good you are now in touch with Don. Regarding your questions, I have never seen another aluminum plate, so it's very unusual, perhaps a reproduction(?). The serial no. should also be stamped into the top of the cylinder and these numbers should match. I'm not sure which valve you are referring to, but there is a valve that releases air and another one to drain the engine's water jacket. The air valve is left open when heating the engine to drive out any accumulated moisture, then it is closed for running. Good luck with the welding--I think you are talking about the displacer piston. A hole in this piston will definitely affect its running.
Hi Brent,
Yes the serial number on the nameplate and the cylinder corresponds,
Maybe you're right it will be rebuilt?

Then .... thanks for the valve ... correct, so in the start, even the fumes of the lubricant will be removed.
Here is the LUBRICANT, what do I recommend to use? Silicone spray?

As for the holes to close I do not talk about the displacement piston, that's perfect!

I speak of the bottom of the hot cylinder, the one in contact with the flame.

About FLAME, using wood, how long will I wait for the operation?

Thank you
Davide
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:58:48 PM
Brent Rowell Brent Rowell is offline
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Davide,
Silicone spray can be used and sometimes helps a sluggish engine, but I use something here called "Marvel Mystery Oil"--don't ask me the ingredients--it's a mystery! It does not burn. But the leather doesn't need much lubricant--it should be well saturated with oil and perhaps some lithium grease. I avoid using motor oil for automobiles in the cylinder, but others may have different experiences and should speak up.

The bottom of the cylinder should be easier to repair. I have never run my engines on wood but use propane gas, although I know others who use wood and say their engine runs better with wood compared with gas. It will take 10-15 minutes or so to warm up with a good gas flame, maybe a little longer if you are pumping water. Not sure about wood. The old catalogs say the engine will run when the hot cylinder becomes "dull red" in color.
Brent
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:56:19 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

I use neat's foot oil to keep the leathers flexible. Marvel Mystery Oil smells and looks like automatic transmission oil IMHO.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:37:15 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Between old things for maintenance of horseshoes look at what I found
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:07:47 PM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

this?
http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/

Or that?
http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mat/
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:27:37 PM
Brent Rowell Brent Rowell is offline
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

I use the one in the red bottle (1st link). It doesn't take much--just a little on the cylinder walls. You can also saturate the leather with a mixture of turbine oil (Zoomspout is an example) and white lithium grease. If the leather is really saturated, the cylinder doesn't need much additional lubrication.
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Old 08-13-2017, 05:46:43 AM
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Default Rider ericsson 6" - displacer piston

But inside the displacer piston what is it?
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:18:23 AM
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Default Re: RIDER ERICSSON 6" - brick - cuir piston gasket

Sorry Davide, I don't understand your last question.
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