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Lighting Fixtures, Switch Panels and Meters

Light Bulb Conspiracy and Planned Obsolesence


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  #21  
Old 08-15-2017, 09:58:01 PM
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Jim McIntyre Jim McIntyre is online now
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

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Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
Well that would take time,but for starters why is it morally right to sell something to someone knowing full well they will not get their moneys worth from it?

Why make a tire that will rot before it wears out? That unexpected blowout could get people killed.
Why sell paint that does not protect the item it is applied to for any length of time?

Just having to "Make a case for it" it would seem some folks agree it is ok to financially r-pe the American people and maintain the division of wealth and poverty. It makes it seem as if it is ok for people to do without because the item they bought failed shortly after the "warranty" expired.

All that along with the fact our landfills are now large enough mountains to make ski trails from should clue some folks in on the fact the chunk away society is not good for the environment.

The roots of the downfall of the middle class can be found in those ideas.
A tv repairman could take a course he bought thru a magazine ,build a small shop in his back yard and support his family.
But instead folks want the tv's made so they fail in 2 years and not be repairable.thus shifting jobs to china and doing away with his. Most middle class folks in the 50's and 60's were not college grads. It was still to costly for other than bright folks or the wealthy to attend.

As for "keeping the factorys busy" . as a example,Gm can build trucks in 2018, full size sedans in 2019,compacts in 2020. Repeat process.
For the moment that will give you some fodder to chew on.

I'm not swayed by the above.


Pardon the , but...


I design stuff for a living and have been doing it for a long time. Any product that has been well-designed has a 'designed' lifetime. Call it 'planned obsolescence' if you want. I do not, for example, want to have to pay for a TV designed to last 100 years. It'd be stupid to design that product in the first place, even if it was affordable (which it would NOT be) because the TV doesn't exist apart from the technology around it. I mean come on over and come pick up my 15-year old Dell PC and 14" monitor. It still works...

As I noted above, designing a light bulb that lasts 100 years is a trivial exercise, but it's of no practical value because of real-world design tradeoffs that have to be made.

But maybe you'd say that 100 years is the wrong number, and so someone could intelligently come up with 'better' lifetimes for products...

So instead of the concept of caveat emptor we'd have your constitutional amendment. What? To protect buyers from using their own brain to make good choices? And instead we'd have a new 48-story Department of Obsolescence Prevention and Management building in D.C., full of thousands of federal employees.

Their job would be to review and analyze all new products being put on the US market - much like the FDA does with drugs now? And they'd set the standards so that cheap Chinese chain saws can't be sold here unless its proven they last for 12.38 years, a standard they established for chain saws after being lobbied by all the chain saw manufacturers, and answering to the politicians that appointed them? And any chain saw you buy will have spent 4 years in their review and approval process, and guess who gets to pay for that? But hey, at least you'd have a chain saw with the US Dept of Obsolescence seal of approval on it. Yay.

And this is somehow better than individuals being responsible for their own buying choices?

Jeesh, I just don't see that ending well...

---------- Post added at 09:58:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47:45 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Frank DeWitt View Post
Keep in mind that if you screwed ten of their 10,000 75 Watt lamps into sockets to replace standard 1000 hour 60 Watt lamps, they'd use an extra 15 Watts each and over 10,000 hours that would cost you about $300 in electricity. AND, the 10,000 hour 75 Watt lamp puts out 25% LESS light.

So, yes it is long life, and that's wonderful. Sometimes. But it does come at a cost.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2017, 10:55:33 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

"And this is somehow better than individuals being responsible for their own buying choices?"

The trouble with your system is our choices are to limited. We are not given the option of buying what could be considered the "Best", as in the 100 year tv or bulb.If it aint there,how can we choose it? . Caveat emptor ,heck we are aware, we can't help that we can't buy the best.It aint there!

Sadly in today's fast paced world, chances are as the designer your hands could be tied by corporate.Telling you for example, "cut cost by 10% on the next model" You may have a idea to improve the device,but your boss just wants to cut cost and continue to milk the public cow .

I can't see needing a lot of enforcement of a obsolesce law.
Quite simple really. If you make your living designing things, perhaps this would simply put you in a position to think and come up with far better ideas instead of changing the colors of a display and calling it the improved model at a 10% price hike.Or changing digital code in a computer program to be 10% faster but not compatible with the old system.
You as a designer would be inclined to think a bit more and redesign the product to be more efficient,lighter weight,longer lasting and those improvements advertised properly would be the incentive for the public to voluntarily replace their old equipment.
Oh in typing that I realized advertising is already used to push out the old stuff, as in to get cheaper made, shorter life span equipment in the hands of the consumer. Because it is pink or because it shaves as well as tells the weather. It's original function lost in history. Example ,cellphone. Now a damn cell phone will do everything BUT make a phone call .
But I am in total agreement with your statements regarding the government department would run like the FDA and would be a 3 ring circus that would not be trustworthy.
As for my cheap chainsaw as a example,I am 50 years old and partially handicapped so I feel I will need a chainsaw for my limited use to last about 10 years.By then my hip will be done for and my balance issues worse. I see no reason why the saw I bought wouldn't last 10 years or so..
Now if I was 20 and able bodied, the best saw I can buy is only rated for 300 hours for it's emissions. Which means it would last ok for 350 or so before it fizzles.,There is where my statement about limited choice comes in. If I want to pay a 1000 dollars for a 20 inch chainsaw when I am 20 years old and not have ever buy another 1 long as I live,it is my money,it should be my choice.

As for your computer that is 15 years old,um, if it was local I would probably take you up on that! Why you might ask?
Because planned obsolescence in computers keeps me and 10's of 1000's of others in a state of constant confusion trying to relearn technology and methods of accomplishing the same task our old equipment that big corporate phased out did problem free.

Sadly while on that subject, It also cost a lot money and time for company's to retrain personal to run the "new and improved" equipment. Cost they have to pass on to the customer.

As for the 100 year bulb, a friend of mine retired as a maintenance man for a huge Methodist church recently. 1 of the hardest task he had to perform was changing bulbs The ceiling was high in the main building. A folding ladder,ha not a chance. I think the highest bulb was 40 feet up?
It required several days and scaffolding to change bulbs.That church budget committee would have cheerfully paid more money for bulbs that once in,could stay in for years while he performed other task.

Interesting topic,that deserves a civil discussion,rather we see eye to eye or not.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2017, 10:16:19 PM
Frank DeWitt Frank DeWitt is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

The one thing I am sure I don't want is laws to help me or protect me. Remember sealed beam headlights that kept the US in the dark long after other countries had better lighting? As for chainsaws. What would happened if they were regulated and you decided to buy a battery powered electric chain saw? My personal favorite BTW. You can't do that. The muffler doesn't meat the required standard, and the fuel tank filler is not on the same side as the chain oil filler.

A friend of mine built a electric car way before they were popular. He took it to be inspected and failed because he didn't have a muffler. No I am not making that up.

I will chose my products my self. Just please please don't help me.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:05:47 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

I calculated the inrush current of an incandescent lamp once. I think in rush current is ~ 15X running current. The filament doesn't have much resistance till it heats up. That huge inrush makes a large magnetic force that moves and stresses the filament.

Ok update 150 watt bulb is 6.8 ohms when cold. So at 120V that's 17.4 amps. 150 watt at 120V is 1.25 amps. So inrush is 1.4/1.25 = ~ 14 X running amps.

I also remember seeing the 100 year fire station bulb in a video. Looks like it's running pretty dim, maybe a 140 V bulb running at 120V

Think in the old days they used to sell in-rush limiters for light bulbs. Size of a quarter and ~ 2-3 times the thickness. Drop it in socket and screw in the bulb. They used to sell flashers too, they looked the same, would make bulb flash.

Last edited by len k; 08-23-2017 at 11:02:21 PM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:53:16 AM
Graycenphil Graycenphil is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

Interesting. That initial current must be for a very short time?

They did say the bulb is producing much less light now than it did when new. I guess it is wearing out, just very slowly.

You can see it here on the webcam: http://www.centennialbulb.org/cam.htm Of course, they've worn out two webcams, but the bulb is still going.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:45:23 PM
len k len k is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

Dimming........Likely tungsten vapor depositing on inside of the glass.

14X inrush...... I have two 150 watt floodlights outside on one switch. ~ 32 amp inrush. When I switch them on I notice the ceiling florescent light dims briefly, it's on the same circuit. So I think 14x inrush is real.

Inrush should be very brief , filament has very little thermal mass, and should come up to white hot operating temp almost instantly. I looked at a filament once wire is coiled into a spring shape, then coiled again into another spring shape.

Last edited by len k; 08-24-2017 at 10:01:03 PM. Reason: typo
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2017, 04:10:24 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

At the very end of the Bright Lights site, they state that they only sell to retail companies. Any retailers willing to sell at wholesale prices to the public?

For most owners of DC light plants, only incandescent lights will work. it's hard to find 32 volt bulbs, and 110s are now becoming hard to get as well.

Sources for these bulbs???
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:48:33 AM
Andy Williams Andy Williams is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

my comments on light bulbs. I have one of the 100+-year-old Edison style bulbs and it is dimmer but still works. incandescent light bulbs in the last 20-25 years have a much shorter life than the older ones. my parents' house was built in the mid-1960s a few of the original bulbs are still working. once they are replaced the new ones will not last much over a year some a lot less. we even took most of the bulbs from an older house to use and I have bought some bags of bulbs at thrift stores to use. it is just aggravating to have to take off globes and covers to change bulbs. Yes, I could use fluorescent or led but I like the light of the old bulbs better, just personal preference. Another thing not mentioned a teacher of mine in high school said his wife could hear a light bulb if it was going out. I didn't pay much attention but I have heard a bulb since. it will make a high pitched ringing sound. then the next time it is turned on it will go out. I have seen this several times. if you don't believe it, try it.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:45:33 AM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

We changed alot of the bulbs in the house to led and frankly I didn't realize how much noise they made until recently. A high pitched buzz and they interfer with am radio as well.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:34:42 PM
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

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Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
We changed alot of the bulbs in the house to led and frankly I didn't realize how much noise they made until recently. A high pitched buzz and they interfer with am radio as well.
The inexpensive ones from big box & food stores sure do. I got some more expensive ones that are quiet and do not make noise on radio
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:18:21 AM
Railroads Railroads is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

I want incandescent bulbs back and the old style diesel engines from China and India. I don't want the Gov't telling me what I can buy and use on my property. Those politicians make more noise and pollution than anything, while getting absolutely nothing done!

I also run a DC generator and have been looking for incandescent lamps. I've been buying up the 130v 100 watt and 60 watt Sunbeam bulbs from the dollar stores. They come from China, but I figure out of several, I might find a good one that last a little while. They are sold under the clause of rough service bulbs. However, Even these bulbs are drying up now.

All might not be lost though, I did some experimenting with both CFL and LED bulbs a while back. Depending on the brand, some of them will start and run on DC. I tested CFL bulbs sold by Sylvania and Greenlite. LED's by Globe Electric and GreenLite both seemed to work fine on DC. They get hotter on DC though.

Generally, If the LED is heavy, its got a decent driving board and will work on DC. The LED types that do not work are the capacitive dropper LED bulbs. Usually these are very light weight and cheapie. I think most LED bulbs sold as dimmable will work on DC?

Those little light bulb buttons are interesting, Just a half wave rectifier. http://damarww.com/product.asp?prod=02682A

Hard to imagine they would extend the life of a bulb. DC tends to be harder on incandescent bulbs. Has to do with thinning of the element at one end and thickening at the other end if polarity isn't reversed once in a while.

Robert

Last edited by Railroads; 06-01-2019 at 01:12:29 PM.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:31:16 AM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: Light Bulb Conspiracy and planned obsolesence

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Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
We changed alot of the bulbs in the house to led and frankly I didn't realize how much noise they made until recently. A high pitched buzz and they interfer with am radio as well.
That tends to be due to insufficient numbers of filament support wires. You can also sometimes “fix” a failed light bulb by moving it around while energized until the two broken filament ends touch and tack weld together. The shorter filament will run hotter (and brighter) though, but it will buy you some time.

---------- Post added at 01:31:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29:31 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
The inexpensive ones from big box & food stores sure do. I got some more expensive ones that are quiet and do not make noise on radio
I’ve found the LEDs to be VERY quiet in terms of radio emissions. The older CFLs were a much bigger problem. If you have a particular bulb that has been a problem, I can try to get one and check it on my spectrum analyzer. I can do a sweep from 100Hz to 22GHz and post the results. My guess is any emissions would be under a few MHz though, if any.

And while the earlier part of the thread was kinda old, if you want to see how badly central government planning can be, ask anyone who grew up in one of the old Soviet states. They’ll all tell pretty much the same story, and it’s a spectacular failure. Their planners were also famous for lying to themselves. It is nature of bureaucratic states and would do no better if tried here.

Bill
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