Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

International Harvester aircraft tug on deck of USS Hornet, 3 miles under water


this thread has 24 replies and has been viewed 2888 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02-14-2019, 08:21:15 PM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, AB Canada
Posts: 2,036
Thanks: 5,972
Thanked 3,607 Times in 1,142 Posts
Default Re: International Harvester aircraft tug on deck of USS Hornet, 3 miles under water

They brought a lot of stuff up from the Titanic. I saw the exhibit when it was thru here. I had mixed feelings about that as it was the grave site of many hundreds of victims.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old 02-14-2019, 09:25:54 PM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brookhaven, Mississippi, USA
Posts: 3,048
Thanks: 898
Thanked 1,938 Times in 1,146 Posts
Default Re: International Harvester aircraft tug on deck of USS Hornet, 3 miles under water

I guess, in some circumstances, it's a double edged sword. Not refering to militray sinks. In any case, some of those salvage companies, recovering much gold and silver, and other things from ancient or old ship wrecks, are also disturbing those who died with the sinking. But, I guess, those seem so far removed from the action.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pat Barrett For This Post:
  #23  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:34:13 PM
ulgydog56's Avatar
ulgydog56 ulgydog56 is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Smithcreek, Michigan
Posts: 529
Thanks: 67
Thanked 236 Times in 173 Posts
Default Re: International Harvester aircraft tug on deck of USS Hornet, 3 miles under water

the hornet may still belong to the us navy, not sure if its stricken off, if not no touchy touchy with out usn promission, plus it may be a war memoreaul,...p.s. don't mine my spelling its for crap' lol: like most sailers I can't spell but can cuss...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:46:32 AM
Brookwood Brookwood is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 64
Thanks: 58
Thanked 260 Times in 48 Posts
Default Re: International Harvester aircraft tug on deck of USS Hornet, 3 miles under water

Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyblue66 View Post
I am not saying we should go pillage every ship wreck or whatever.But I can't see it being any different than the digging up of ancient indian graves or King Tuts tomb.Just as wrong.
I would think bringing something to the surface to a museum so that family could visit and see something solid would be good for the familys. Similar to a tombstone.Not many folks can float out there in a ship and see it for them selves.
Ah-ha..you've touched on a very interesting debate right there. King 'Tut's tomb was an archeological quantum leap that expanded our knowledge about human history and gave us an incredible insight to a lost world. We are still learning new things about the artifacts, almost 100 years after the tomb was discovered. On the flip, was it right to desecrate his sarcophagus and display his remains like a carnival sideshow? Well...not by modern standards, but at time it was perfectly acceptable. Modern archaeologists cringe at what insight was lost when Howard Carter un-wrapped his mummy and tossed the linen...Point is, we've come a long way with our archaeological and conservation practices. With new technology we can still learn a lot, yet maintain a respect for the dead.

Recovering a symbolic talisman for the sake of remembrance? If it is respectfully done, I'm all for it. The bell of the HMS Hood (sunk in 1941 with the loss of 1,415 crew) was recovered in 2015 from a depth of 9,200 feet. After careful conservation,the bell was rung by HRH Princess Anne at a very respectful ceremony to commemorate the ship and it's lost crew before being placed on display at the Portsmouth Historic Dockyard museum. Lost crew member's families were there and forever more will the sailor's sacrifices be remembered by anyone who sees the bell and reads the story of the HMS Hood. You want to raise an artifact and present it in a similar manner, by all means go ahead I support you 100%.

Something like the Titanic however, well...I'm on the fence. At the time of it's discovery in 1985, the Titanic became front page news (again). There were still survivors who were alive and universally they spoke out against any salvage attempts. To them it wasn't just pictures in a book, it was the final resting place for people they knew and loved down there. But the public wanted more than pictures. Then came the ridiculous 1987 TV special with Telly Savalus where the French recovered a safe (along with many other artifacts) and it was 'opened' on live TV to show it's treasures. And then came the 1997 blockbuster movie and the Titanic became a pop culture icon. It was game on. RMS Titanic Inc. got the salvage rights and the debris field around the wreck was plundered for shiny objects to be put on display in a traveling circus that went around the world. Yes, 1,500 people died, but the Titanic was hot and people were willing to pay! Heck, shrewd businessmen were actually charging for tours of the graveyards in a public cemetery in Newfoundland to look at headstones from recovered victims!

But what new insights about human history did we learn that we didn't already know? The Titanic sank in 1912. Examples of the technology have survived, are understood and documented. We know the social culture at the time. Photography and film were established by then and we have a record of the ship and it's identical twin the Olympic. What is to be gained by looking at the contents of a drowned man's suitcase? Yes, I understand that physical artifacts - right there in front of us under a plexiglass case - connect us with the event and make it real, but just remember at the end of the day, in that example, 1,500 people died. And now for $30 a pop, you can gawk at their stuff. They'll even sell you a pea sized lump of coal recovered from the ocean floor. Imagine if 100 years from now there was a tourist kiosk at Ground Zero selling vials of dust from the Twin Towers...

Which brings me to the tractor on the deck of the USS Hornet. Yes it is there. Yes, it looks to be in salvageable condition. But it is a grave site for 140 US sailors who died fighting for liberty and freedom. Would an International tug be the best way to remember them? We've got restored examples that we can see and interact with. Does it represent the USS Hornet or teach us and future generations about WW2 in general? No.

If there is anything at all to be recovered, go get the bell. The heart and soul of the ship. Leave the tug on the deck, we've got pictures of it. Get the bell and use it to teach future generations about the USS Hornet, the USN, the Doolittle Raid and the 140 brave men who sacrificed their lives in the name of freedom.


Brookwood

Last edited by Brookwood; 02-15-2019 at 04:42:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Brookwood For This Post:
  #25  
Old 02-15-2019, 11:42:38 PM
ulgydog56's Avatar
ulgydog56 ulgydog56 is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Smithcreek, Michigan
Posts: 529
Thanks: 67
Thanked 236 Times in 173 Posts
Default Re: International Harvester aircraft tug on deck of USS Hornet, 3 miles under water

bravo, you got it right.....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ulgydog56 For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
International harvester UV-401 ONAN KB 55KW generator water pump bolts different/odd Spacelord Onan Generators 7 09-29-2017 11:48:14 AM
Water Pump for Onan 55KW KB series International Harvester UV-401 same as UV-549 Spacelord Onan Generators 6 09-23-2017 07:20:39 PM
!048 International Harvester Cub David Scott Antique Farm Tractors 5 09-21-2012 06:42:16 AM
International Harvester LA C. Lambert Antique Gas Engine Discussion 9 11-18-2010 06:36:39 AM
International Harvester Peter Fletcher Antique Engine Archives 4 09-28-2002 10:26:55 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:16:26 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277