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Fuels and Alternative Fuels Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Fuels and Alternative Fuels

Bio Fuel My Butt


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  #21  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:41:38 PM
Inter Bloke Inter Bloke is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

Kevin,
When farmers were "producers" it was acknowledged that 25% of what you produced was used to operate the horses. My family had at that time 1800 acres and 2 teams of eight horses, they used to put in 400 acres of mostly wheat and harvest about 250 tons of crop annualy (we also run sheep). Since we have become "Consumers" we have 3500 acres of land plant 1700 acres of cop with one tractor and harvest nearly 2000 tons of combined grains. Its reconed that if we end up having to go back to feeding our own motive power it will take at least that 25% of production to keep the tractor and truck running on something like cannola oil. Thats production that won't be going into the marketplace and mouths that won't be fed. Think about it thats only ON FARM, I doubt that agriculture could produce half enough fuel to run the entire vehicle fleet, and if they did everyone would starve.
And COSTS don't start me on that, just to say NO other business would put up with the profit margine agriculture does, and that goes for U.S. as well as Australian, there is very little profit in agriculture for the farmer, most goes to others in the chain !

Enough ranting from me,
Graham
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2008, 12:53:26 PM
snowcountryfarmer snowcountryfarmer is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

Just saw this old thread and had to comment. Interesting to me that people think farmers get paid not to grow crops, get all sorts of subsidies, and that somehow costs the consumer money at the grocer.

Here in the Northeast the federal government sets the price for wholesale milk, and it's usually below the cost of production, subsidies are few and far between and only serve to keep farmers in business who have costs that are higher than income.

I would love for all the smart ass whiners and poor farmers here to get the government out of the way, and let the free market take over. If a gallon of milk sold for 8.00$ (approximate 1950 price adjusted for inflation) I would be milking cows full time instead of working for the man.

All of the people that believe food prices are high need to wake up. These same people believe that farm subsidies somehow help farmers and hurt the average taxpayer need to wake up...it's completely the other way around.
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2008, 06:28:39 AM
renewablejohn renewablejohn is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inter Bloke View Post
Kevin,
When farmers were "producers" it was acknowledged that 25% of what you produced was used to operate the horses. My family had at that time 1800 acres and 2 teams of eight horses, they used to put in 400 acres of mostly wheat and harvest about 250 tons of crop annualy (we also run sheep). Since we have become "Consumers" we have 3500 acres of land plant 1700 acres of cop with one tractor and harvest nearly 2000 tons of combined grains. Its reconed that if we end up having to go back to feeding our own motive power it will take at least that 25% of production to keep the tractor and truck running on something like cannola oil. Thats production that won't be going into the marketplace and mouths that won't be fed. Think about it thats only ON FARM, I doubt that agriculture could produce half enough fuel to run the entire vehicle fleet, and if they did everyone would starve.
And COSTS don't start me on that, just to say NO other business would put up with the profit margine agriculture does, and that goes for U.S. as well as Australian, there is very little profit in agriculture for the farmer, most goes to others in the chain !

Enough ranting from me,
Graham
We are slowly going back to producing our own fuel for our forestry operation. We are using woodpellets for heating and we will shortly be operating a wood pellet gas generator. The eventual aim is for both the tractor and truck to be converted to wood pellet/straw pellet for a total green solution.
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  #24  
Old 09-26-2009, 12:00:46 PM
Ironsides Ironsides is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

renewablejohn,please tell us more on how you are making the pellets,(no need to breach company secrets).Am always interested in other means of energy,Norm
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  #25  
Old 07-05-2010, 08:21:22 PM
Tony Rye Tony Rye is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

and who subsidizes the farmer.cut it all out and let the market set the prices
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:59:26 PM
Gil Garceau Gil Garceau is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

The first subsidy we should drop in the USA is that which supports the sugar growers. The entire rest of the world buys sugar for less than we are able to here.

Then we could quit mucking about trying to make ethanol from corn and make it from sugar cane like they do in Brazil. Alcohol is much simpler and cheaper to produce from sugar cane. Corn as a source of alcohol is a costly albatross.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:29:06 PM
wagspe208 wagspe208 is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

People don't just think farmers get paid not to grow... they do get paid by us (taxpayers) not to grow.

A few years back it was $75 an acre to put in set aside. It is much more now. It depends on the county/ land typical yield, etc.

This is not urban legend. It is the truth. I have 70 acres. I was asked by the local ag guy how much I wanted to put in set aside. It is not even crop land. About 35 woods, 35 pasture. (I was in asking about lake permits/ requirements). NONE.. I will not be beholden to the govt!

So, next time you pay to much for corn, flour, soy prooducts, etc. Thank Uncle Sam. Farmers can produce so much more on so much less land now than even 10 years ago it is amazing.
Wags
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  #28  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:58:41 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

Beef is expected to double in price before the new year, because of corn shortages {feed}. By jan. 2011, 15 percent ethenol will be regulated in. It's not nice to fool mother nature.

Rod
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  #29  
Old 12-28-2010, 08:38:05 PM
M&WJOE M&WJOE is offline
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Hey All, I read that Al Gore is backing off alternative fuels because of the costs and shortages it is producing. Is this true? Back when this all started when Big Al was snowballing us, even my little simple little mind could figure the math. What-The???? M&WJoe
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  #30  
Old 12-29-2010, 02:57:32 PM
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Ed Allandar Ed Allandar is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

Our own Pony Express gave up on Bi0-diesel due to the loss of fuel economy, but they still try and jamb it down our throats.
http://green.autoblog.com/2008/06/02...-thanks-to-re/
Here's a story that might send angry chills through you: the U.S. Postal Service's (USPS) flexfuel experiment is revealing some terrible results.

The Postal Service has been testing out a cleaner vehicle fleet for many years. It is today made up of over 30,000 vehicles like hybrids (pictured) and ones that run on CNG or biodiesel, among many other gasoline alternatives. The USPS is also trying other ways to save fuel, like better delivery routes. As Sustainable Business reports, though, the USPS' flexfuel vehicles not only saw a decreased fuel efficiency of 29 percent, but also ended up forcing the USPS to use 1.5m gallons more gasoline than before. Why? Because the USPS couldn't buy and use E85 everywhere it wanted to and so the flexfuel engines - which were larger than the ones they replaced - were thirsty and burned more fuel. The USPS has declared that it will now only use E85-capable vehicles in places where the biofuel is "competitively priced and conveniently available,
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  #31  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:12:17 PM
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

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Originally Posted by DanR View Post
Bio fuel is not the answer to our soaring prices. Look at some things that we all know. Gas prices going up daily, groceries doubled in the last year, property value at an all time low, and metal prices off the scale. The fact is that the production of bio fuel is costing us in ways that we cannot imagine. The price of farm land has tripled because of more corn production. Farmers are making profits as never before. Diesel use has doubled for farm use. The cost of shell corn has doubled in the last year. Fertilizer and chemicals have doubled in the last year. And the list goes on and on. When we make bio fuel for what ever reason we are passing the cost on to every one. Is the end worth the means? The old adage, " It's not how much you make it's how much it costs you to make it." The solution is not for the faint of heart. I personally don't see any of the Presidential candidates with enough fortitude to tell Detroit to get it together, tell the oil lobbyists to go to hell and tell the Greenies to back off. The answer is in nuclear energy and oil exploration not bio fuel. Boy have we been taken to the corn field on this one.
Dan,
better do some self educating on this subject...dont know what you have been reading or smoking....

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/exchange/e...hanol-attacks/
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2010, 04:18:25 PM
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

If you actually read the report, the reason for the decreased fuel economy was they replaced 4 cylinder postal jeeps with 6 and 8 cylinder flex fuel vehicles because that was what was available. They were way larger than necessary. So you aren't comparing apples to apples. According to the next slide in the report, The next steps for the experiment is to increase the use of (E85) when competively priced and conveniently available, so they are saying that in certain locations (midwest) it is a cheaper alternative to straight gasoline.

And that report is from 2007, which is ancient history when you are talking about bio-fuels.

Doesn't sound like a complete failure to me.
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  #33  
Old 12-30-2010, 08:27:37 AM
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Casemaker I did read the article. If you read the bio on the authors you will see that not one of them has any credentials to say 'this is fact'. It looks to me that this is nothing more than a lobbyist group. The article says nothing about education or experience of the authors. I wonder if any of them even has a GED. BTW I don't smoke.
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  #34  
Old 12-30-2010, 09:24:38 AM
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

DanR,
good point - but what exactly are your credentials ? I bet they have lots more credentials then you have !

By the way that was a company memo from ADM who own lots of ethanol plants. I would think they know what it costs to produce it and all of the other impacts. They are in the both the food and energy businesses.
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  #35  
Old 12-30-2010, 11:31:32 AM
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

DanR,
you must have been smoking when you read those Bio's of the authors. I dont know too many Lawyers, CEO's, Presidents, Vice President or even communication specialists (which requires 4 years of college) that dont evan have a GED....

Did you do a search on the facts presented and find them for yourself like the articule invites you to do ?
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  #36  
Old 12-30-2010, 03:13:10 PM
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Talking Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casemaker View Post
DanR,
you must have been smoking when you read those Bio's of the authors. I dont know too many Lawyers, CEO's, Presidents, Vice President or even communication specialists (which requires 4 years of college) that dont evan have a GED....
I would caution anyone, who thinks that the above named positions in a company, means that they are competent to make statements as to the Engineering Facts on any of the issues raised here. Lawyers, CEO, Presidents, VicePresidents, and especially "communications specialists" are NOT qualified to make these Statements of FACT.... just by their position in a company. It is the Engineers, Chemists, and Technologists that would be the qualified Speakers of FACT, and so far no one has shown that any of these folks have those qualifications. Lawyers and "communications specialists" are nothing more than Hired Talking Mouths. CEO's, Presidents, VicePresidents, in this day and age, are much more likely to be MBA's, rather than Engineers, and that is what is WRONG with many of the companies in this country. It isn't the Engineers that are running them, but some MBA that doesn't know CRAP about the product he is selling..... Just my opinion, and YMMV.....
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  #37  
Old 12-30-2010, 04:09:52 PM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

if you let engineering types run companies....you wont have a company for very long......I AM an engineering type by the way.....but even most engineering types have more of an education than a GED like the post above brings into question which is pure non-sense.

BTpost,
this articule just pulls together already published facts from other qualified sources, which can be easily verified .....it does not disclose anything new. In fact the articule in question invites you to do so.... research the stated material yourself ..... instead people like yourself tend to attack the character of the authors when you dont want to believe the contents. You must know a lot more about these authors than I do. Lets hear what you know about them.
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  #38  
Old 12-30-2010, 05:51:30 PM
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

I am an engineer and I support those facts listed in the link. Does that help anyone believe it? Research it yourself. Or you can believe reporters who write for Yahoo and other "credible??" sources? Or maybe you can believe researchers whose studies were funded by the oil industry?

One of the reasons Dinneen is president of the RFA because he can communicate well and has connections. Just because he didn't do the research himself, it doesn't diminish the credibility of the facts that he writes about.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:54:13 PM
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Default Re: Bio Fuel My Butt

I make NO STATEMENT, about the qualifications of these Specific People, as they are NOT Identified, in the article, as to their qualifications to make these "Statements of Fact. I just pointed out, that Lawyers and "communications specialists", are not qualified to make such "Statements of Facts" without identifying the sources of said Facts, and the qualifications of those sources, to make said Statements of Facts. The exact same thing is true for "CEOs, Presidents and Vice Presidents of companies", that choose not to disclose the sources of their Statements of Fact, and the qualifications of the people that issued the Statements of Fact. If there is documentation, it should be provided, otherwise it is just HYPE, and Speculation, at best, and total BS at worst, and should be considered as such, unless, and until, the documentation is supplied.

This is why we have Peer Reviewed publications, and journals, in the scientific and engineering world, where ones Statements of Fact, can be reviewed by Peers in the specific field of endeavor, and judged against the previous Knowledge Base of that field of endeavor. It is NO DIFFERENT here with these issues, than the Yahoo, who claims he has invented the Perpetual Motion Machine, but produces no documentation to back up his claim. Without documentation it is all just speculation.....
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Old 02-25-2011, 12:17:11 AM
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i just read everyones intreaging views, and feel the pain too, my family farm has been hurt hard too, we raised beef, untill my grandfather died in 1997, we fought for years to keep it afloat, plaged with rising cost and ironicly infertill herfers, we gave up in 2001, shut it down and i moved to ohio. my old friend peter at northern farm is at his end too, his back is done and due for operation, yet again me, his family and fellow farmers are fighting to keep it afloat, i know that look in his eyes, its the same look my grandfather gave me before he died,......were is the goverment in all this?, bio-diesel is a step in the right direction, but not the answer everyone's looking for, whats killing everything is the goverment, after everythings said and done whats left for our kids?
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