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Fuels and Alternative Fuels Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Fuels and Alternative Fuels

Any use for "Old Bad Gas"


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  #41  
Old 03-12-2011, 12:55:06 PM
joethemechanic joethemechanic is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

My personal problem with gas containing eth. is I'm getting screwed for BTUs. I'm really cheeeeeeep.
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  #42  
Old 03-12-2011, 01:51:59 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

The lower BTUs is somewhat countered by the higher Octane rating though if you can bump up the compression and or advance the timing to make better use of it.

My main compalint about it is the fact that they burn so much fuel to make the fuel, by the time they plow, disc, fertilize, plant, pick, & dry the corn before it even gets to the ethanol plant.

The water contamination can be found in most fuels to some extent through condensation and ground water runoff into the underground tanks before you buy it. With regular gas it all settles to the bottom where it eventually builds up enough to get sucked up and cause problems. With Ethanol it's stays suspended in the fuel up to the 0.6% saturation point at which time it seperates and dumps to the bottom of the tank & gets sucked up either from the underground tank into your tank (or gas can) or from your tank into your motor. In a sealed tank it shouldn't draw any extra condensation from the air, but if it's right at the saturation point and the temp drops by 20 degree's it can seperate with no additional water added. (according to the Feb 2011 Popular Mechanics magazine)
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2012, 10:33:45 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

I have a saturn 1994 sl2 that will ping a little on regular E10 ethanol laced gas so yes ethanol increases octane a couple points BUT the refiners know that and the base stocks are downgraded in octane. so you just can not get any extra oomph out of e-10 regular gas by bumping compression or playing with timing. There is no freebie given to you by the oil companies, no wasted potential.

---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------

If you dump some water in e10 to let it phase separate,then you get to experience some real low octane fuel and it will run awful.
E10, yes I hate it because of issues like food versus fuel driving up food costs especially for the poor, wastes a lot of NG energy and fresh water to make it, degrades quickly, people say lasts maybe 90 days, and ALSO this, it was originally pimped to the mass market as a green energy solution to wean us off use of fossil fuels. However your engine car gets 10% or less MPG running with e10 versus pure gasoline, so how are you saving any fossil fuels or being 'greener'? Your just being duped, fooled by 'green speake', your going to burn 10% MORE E10 to go the same distance, so your definitely using more and getting less.
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2012, 12:13:49 PM
KidDynamo KidDynamo is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Don't be too quick to lay ethanol hatred on the doorstep of us green-types.

The alcohol producers and sellers and supporters are more likely to be "big business types" in search of profits, despite what fiction news types feed to their true believers.

Sure, some few folks get a warm and fuzzy feeling because they think getting their fuel from plants is "helping the planet" but it takes all kinds.

Trading topsoil for cheap transportation doesn't seem like environmentally wise policy to me, not to mention I have a few carbs that are messed up and fuel hoses turning to jell-o.

Yeah, I do my engine hobby as green as I can. It is a lot more work than doing it "brown" but I don't mind.

One big help is the city of Seattle has free hazardous waste disposal for non-commercial users that it bring to certain sites. That's where all my bad gas that doesn't exist goes.

Last edited by KidDynamo; 04-21-2012 at 12:19:24 PM. Reason: forgot a word: "it".
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  #45  
Old 05-02-2012, 06:59:15 AM
Combustor Combustor is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Some of the folk on the veg oil burners forums collect the stuff, filter it and blend it with filtered waste veg oil to burn it in their older type diesel engines, on road or for off grid power. About 15% in the lighter veg oils makes an acceptable diesel substitute while temps stay above freezing. At lower temps it seems safe to blend round 10% with regular diesel and most older motors never know the difference. Combustor.
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  #46  
Old 05-02-2012, 05:47:14 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

My experience with old/bad gas is this, fell for the urban myth/old wives tale of stale gas one year. Went through the rigamarole on a rototiller, of shutting the gas off & running the motor until it ran out, emptying the tank before storing, even pulled the plugs & squirted some oil in the cylinder. Come spring never had so much trouble in my life getting something started & keep running.

Learned my lesson, now just fill the tank & park it whether it be a small engine, car, truck or tractor. When it's time to start just turn the key & go, might have to charge the battery but other than that no problems.

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

Forgot to add that using food as fuel is a crime against humanity IMO
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  #47  
Old 05-26-2012, 04:28:01 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Even though I already posted it in another thread, I figured I'd post a video link in this one too showing my 37 Ford truck running on the 14+ year old gas in 2008 when I rebuilt the distributor. Fired it up for the first time since it was towed home in 1994 and packed away with a broken spring shorted out in the distributor.

This is the truck I mentioned in posts 6 and 16 that sat in a building with a dirt floor and high humidity with a 1/4 tank of gas in it. Other than dribbling a little fresh gas in the carb to prime it instead of cranking it long enough to pump the carb full, there was No New Gas Added to it. It fired up and is shown running on the 1/4 tank of old stuff, which I also drove on for 4 miles to the nearest station to finally add more to it after running it a while in the yard after getting it out of the shed.

http://youtu.be/SDqefZuMenU

I wouldn't go so far as to say it runs perfect, as it does have a little lifter noise due to my rebuilding the engine as a kid with a little extra valve clearance, and the vaccuum brake on the distributor having a bit of wear in the friction pad so the timing varies a little, but it is running the same as it always does regaurdless of how old or new the fuel is, and as I've pointed out before, I haven't touched the carburator at all since I rebuilt it in 1978 at the age of 16.

I kind of wish I would have made a video of the flathead in my 51 Ford sedan when I first started it on the 21 year old stuff that was in the tank when I bought it. That one smoked quite a bit and the gas had a strong varnish smell to it, but after cleaning and adjusting the points (before trying to start it the first time), it ran like a sewing machine... perfectly smooth and quiet with 25,557 miles on the odometer (barely even broke in yet). Car was parked in 1979 when it lost the brakes, and I bought it in 2000. Drove it around the yard a few times, couldn't take it on the road with no brakes, stored it for the winter, and got it out again the next year and sold it. Fired it up on the then 22 year old gas and drove it on the new owners trailer. Never added any new gas to that one. Never even adjusted the carb on it either.... just cleaned the points and ran it.
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  #48  
Old 05-26-2012, 07:41:11 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Otto, you had better luck on your 37 than I did on mine. I got my 1937 pickup out last year after sitting about 6 or 7 years and the carb. and fuel pump were gummed up bad. I took them both off and rebuilt them, drained the tank and put in fresh gas, then found the gas line was gummed up solid. I could not blow through it with a air hose at 120lbs. so I ran a new gas line.

What fun, after all that work I was so discusted I drove it around the block a few times and put it back in the barn.
Steve
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  #49  
Old 05-26-2012, 09:44:09 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

That's a nice looking truck, but then I am kind of partial to 37s.

Sometimes I wish mine was a pickup instead of the bigger flatbed, but I love 'em either way.

Thanks buttons used up again as usual, but I will definitely be thanking that beautiful looking truck picture.
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  #50  
Old 05-26-2012, 10:14:51 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Steve,

Great looking truck. Bummer about the problems with the old gas. Not really surprised though.

Bill
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  #51  
Old 05-27-2012, 10:47:31 AM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Thanks Otto and Bill. I was expecting the gas problems, just not that bad. Its a beautiful truck, and alot of fun when your not working on it!!
Steve
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  #52  
Old 05-27-2012, 11:04:02 AM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Of course I HAVE To Ask.... what did you do with the old gas ?

I would have just put it back in and used it myself after cleaning the plugged fuel line.... but maybe that's just me

I had a hard time starting my loader tractor a few years ago and found the screen plugged on the end of the line. I cleaned it and was good to go again without draining the tank.

---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 AM ----------

I forgot to ask too....

Do the pickups have cables on the brakes or solid rods ?

I always hear people complaining about the mechanical brakes not working because the cables stretch, but that's another problem I've never run into as mine has solid rods that don't stretch. I can lock them up if I need to. First two years I had it on the road I had the regular truck plates on it and had to run it through the safety lanes. They told me they never saw brakes check out as even as mine did. Even hydraulic brakes vary more wheel to wheel than what mine do.

I rebuilt and adjusted them when I was 15/16 years old too and haven't touched them since.
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  #53  
Old 05-27-2012, 11:42:39 AM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Otto, I think I used it for burning brush. There was not a whole lot left it the tank. It smelled like a varnish factory.....and I know what they smell like. In town here there is a chemical company, years ago they made varnish. I don't remember the name of the company, but to everyone in town it was just called the varnish factory.
I have reused the old gas in the past, but I use it in a modern car so it gets used up and is not sitting around even longer. I filter it and mix a little at a time with the new gas.
Steve

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

Otto, my dad changed it over to juice brakes. Thats another story....not good when they sit for a long time! I like mechanical brakes on the old cars because they don't go bad when they sit. I would like to switch it back some day.
My dad hated mechanical brakes. I think it all goes back to my grandpa having a brand new 37 Ford long wheel base flatbed truck for his ornamental iron buisness, he did not drive so my dad was the only driver. My grandpa was building a house so he sent my dad to St. Louis to pick up a load of bricks. He said they had four guys loading the bricks by hand, two on the truck stacking and two on the ground throwing them up. He thought this would take a while, and he did not get a chance to get to St. Louis much, so while they were loading them he decided to walk around town and sight see. When he returned they had the bricks stacked as high as the cab all the way back on the long bed. He said even with the truck being brand new with all that weight he could not stop it with the mechanical brakes. Of course after trucks started coming out with air brakes it spoiled him!
Steve
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  #54  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:08:32 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Do you know if your truck had cables or rods for the brakes? I think the cars still had cables, but I'm not sure about the smaller pickup trucks.

Your Grandpa's big flat bed would have had the solid rods like mine does so they should have worked OK, but he was probably severly overloaded with the bricks stacked that high.
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:10:28 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Bad gas around here has a unique smell of it's own. Varnish smells like perfume in comparison. There's no way I would put it back in a tank and try to reuse it. You'd probably be lucky if you could start paper burning with it. In fact one time I threw some stale ethanol gas that I drained from a carburetor on a burning paper towel and it extinguished the flame.

Bill
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:11:34 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Otto, I'm not sure if pickups had rods or cables. I know 1937 was the first year for cables on the cars. Then in 1939 cars went to hydraulic brakes.
Henry Fords famous saying....steel from pedal to wheel
Steve
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  #57  
Old 06-06-2012, 12:31:32 PM
Manorfarmdenton Manorfarmdenton is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Many years ago in the early 60s I was working on a farm and was asked by the farmer to syphon some petrol out of a WW2 Chevvy truck that we used to cart corn, and put it in his lawnmower to mow the lawn. I didnt know the old truck had two gas tanks, one of which was blanked off and not used. Of course it was that one I went to, and it had some gas in it, probably left over from WW2! I syphoned a can of petrol out, getting a mouthful in the process, and the foul smell didnt alert me - well I was round 18 at the time. I put it in the mower and started to cut the grass but the engine packed up in a very short time. The cylinder head, exhaust etc were solid with carbon! I wasnt very popular that day!
I'm not sure what you pay for gas in the US, but you may be interested to hear I just paid £1.409 per litre for Diesel, and petrol is similar. Thats £6-40 / Imp Gallon which is around $9.90! John.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:52:00 PM
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manorfarmdenton View Post
I'm not sure what you pay for gas in the US, but you may be interested to hear I just paid £1.409 per litre for Diesel, and petrol is similar. Thats £6-40 / Imp Gallon which is around $9.90! John.
What's the average wages over there compared with the U.S. and what kind of miles per gallon do you get.

When you have half the Country at or below what they concider the poverty level and driving older vehicles that are lucky to get 10-15MPG, $3.50 to $4.00 a gallon gas really screws up the economy when they can't afford to buy anything else after putting gas in the car. When 1/2 the paycheck goes in the gas tank just to be able to get to work, it doesn't leave much for buying other goods that other people make and then they get their hours cut (if they're lucky enough to keep their job) and then they too have less to spend and someone else gets their hours cut, etc., etc., etc....

I haven't checked it recently, but back in 2008 when gas hit $4.32 a gallon locally, it was still selling for around $0.27 a gallon in South America, but they also survived on a couple dollars a day income.

What ticked me off the most this Spring, after hearing the excuse for years and years about gas prices going up because of supply and demand, was that for the first time in history, Gasoline was the top export item for the United States. You can look at that as meaning that Auto Exports are down and Grain Exports are down, or you can look at it as the Gas Companies are more than capable of supplying more gas than the U.S. can ever use, and are selling it to other countries at record rates just to keep the prices inflated within the country. Bottom line.... There Is NO Gas Shortage running the prices up, it's Nothing More than Corporate Greed and having a Monopoly that they control and no-one else can get into.
Saudi Arabia has offered to build us more refineries to help lower the cost of gas and the gas companies want no part of it because it would lower their profits.
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  #59  
Old 06-06-2012, 06:25:25 PM
Manorfarmdenton Manorfarmdenton is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

Otto, I dont know what the official average wage is, but an agricultural worker would be anywhere between £10K and £20K p.a. and a truck driver around the £20K.

My Land Rover Discovery does around 30 mpg, but a small car probably does 50 to even 70 nowadays? But they arent monster V8s!

A huge proportion of the cost of our road fuel is tax taken by the government and even our rebated tractor Diesel has a tax element now, as well as a proportion of biofuel that means it doesnt store well! Our big tractors burn £300 / $460 worth a day when they are working hard - that takes some justifying! John.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:27:00 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: Any use for "Old Bad Gas"

The exporters of refined gasoline in the US are selling to the government buyers of countries like China and India who then sell it at a cheaper price to their citizens. So yes we have an abundance of gasoline and yes the foreign buyers like China have an abundance of cash and will use it to pay higher than what we think of as normal market prices. That exported gas is artificially being boosted in price by large government buyers from foreign powers. I think it stinks. Some of these oil producing countries export oil but import refined fuels. I think Iraq and Iran do that.
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