Generators and Electric Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

Diesel generator fabrication


this thread has 11 replies and has been viewed 515 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:39:50 PM
mianrehman60 mianrehman60 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 7
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Diesel generator fabrication

I am new to smokstak forum. Thanks for allowing me to become a member.
I need some guidance in fabricating a diesel generator. The generator is being put together in my farm garage. The prime mover is a used diesel toyota engine and the generator is 10 KW. Coupling is through a flexible universal joint. Question that I have is: should i use a additional rotating weight or the weight of the engine flywheel is adequate. Any help will be much appreciated. https://www.smokstak.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 10-03-2019, 01:30:17 PM
Ed Radtke Ed Radtke is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Martinsville In.
Posts: 1,250
Thanks: 13
Thanked 355 Times in 312 Posts
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

I would think that adding weight might slow the gov response time on a heavy surge.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:58:33 AM
BTPost's Avatar
BTPost BTPost is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Excursion Inlet, Alaska USA 99850-0090
Posts: 4,833
Thanks: 521
Thanked 1,825 Times in 1,201 Posts
Talking Re: Diesel generator fabrication

One question that might need some serious attention, if this was a vehicle Engine is, What are you going to do for a Governor? Vehicle Engines don't usually have a Constant Speed Governor, and that will be needed for a Genset Application...
__________________
Bruce in alaska
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:21:57 PM
mianrehman60 mianrehman60 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 7
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

appreciate response. I think you are correct. The response will be delayed. The added weight will make the system even worst as there is no governor to rev up the prime mover upon load. However this is crude setup only for light load i.e. lighting etc. which remains constant. The question arose when the fabricator wanted to add rotating weight to which i disagreed.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:48:18 PM
mianrehman60 mianrehman60 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 7
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

BT post Hi. You are correct vehicles engines are not designed to be used for such an application as there max HP is at a much higher RPM than what is required for generator application 1500 - 1800 RPM and the governor situation as you mentioned. However our is a crude set up for light load which more or less will stay constant. And the engine used is off a vehicle not the best option. The question arose as the fabricator wanted to add a rotating weight to which I had my reservations.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-04-2019, 02:54:20 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 11,038
Thanked 3,077 Times in 2,042 Posts
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

A constant speed generator can only benefit from greater rotating mass. A governor will be required though, unless the load truly is nearly constant. Auto engines are just fine as generator engines, so long as they are run nice and slow for durability and the load requirements are within the engine’s hp capability at the particular speed and the timing and so forth is optimized for the speed. Lots of OEM generator set manufacturers have used auto engines throughout history and to this day.

Keith
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-04-2019, 06:42:16 PM
Harvey Teal Harvey Teal is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Poestenkill, New York, USA
Posts: 521
Thanks: 420
Thanked 231 Times in 123 Posts
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

Direct coupling may not be your best option. A belt drive will give you the flexibility to match the genhead to the engine’s best speed/torque.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:36:20 PM
mianrehman60 mianrehman60 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 7
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

Vanham, thanks for the reply. Trying to understand, a constant speed generator will be one with no switching load but a continuous load. While our load is a mixture of continuous and switching loads i.e. (lights, refrigeator & A/C), but why would a continuous/constant load benefit from a additional rotating mass. Is the built-in rotating mass of the system i.e. the armature of the generator and the flywheel of the prime mover not adequate ? Regarding the prime mover I have some reservation in using a vehicle engine as its optimal hp is produced at a higher RPM and where in gen application it is limited to 1500-1800 RPM using direct coupling. The other option is as Harvey Teal mentioned to use a belt drive where the prime mover RPM can be increased producing higher HP.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:39:46 PM
mianrehman60 mianrehman60 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 7
Thanks: 4
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

Harvey, Thanks for the info. While we have decided to direct couple the gen i agree that for optimum use of the vehicle engine a belt drive will be more efficient.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-05-2019, 12:43:47 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
Email NOT Working
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Penn Valley, California, USA
Posts: 2,865
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1,023 Times in 718 Posts
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

I think that 1800 RPM is a good choice for an automotive engine used in a generator application. We are trying to generate power, not win a race. My car runs about 1800 RPM all the time at cruising speed which is kind of what we want.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Birken Vogt For This Post:
  #11  
Old 10-05-2019, 02:15:44 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 11,038
Thanked 3,077 Times in 2,042 Posts
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

Assuming you’re using a four pole ac generator and want 60 cycle current, it must run at 1800 rpm at all times, regardless of the load amount. The engine governor accomplishes this in large part, but it’s response time to changing load has limitations. The inertia of the rotating assembly smooths out sudden changes in load, giving time for the governor to respond, thus avoiding large changes in speed, and therefore frequency. If you’re running an A/C unit, you will need an engine governor, as the difference in load on the engine between A/C running, off, and starting will be substantial. I would imagine that the generator, engine, and it’s flywheel all together would be adequate, in conjunction with a good governor.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Vanman For This Post:
  #12  
Old 10-05-2019, 08:59:35 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cedarbluff, Virginia, USA
Posts: 3,551
Thanks: 1,130
Thanked 2,094 Times in 1,164 Posts
Default Re: Diesel generator fabrication

to put it in simple terms the added rotating weight is basically a flywheel storing enegery. look at a hit and miss engine same princapal. those flywheels cary the engine thru the load until the engine needs to fire again. they will smooth the transition between no load and load.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tracy T For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Boiler Fabrication Dan Donaldson Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines 460 12-09-2017 12:22:30 AM
Gas Tank Fabrication Nick Lingg Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 8 06-04-2013 10:01:47 AM
Fabrication Question BTPost Machine Shop and Tool Talk 13 10-09-2010 06:36:43 PM
NEW Boiler Fabrication BJSlacker Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines 27 11-09-2009 09:43:41 AM
magnets/fabrication martin reed Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 1 05-29-2001 09:04:26 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:56:26 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277