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100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I left


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  #61  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:45:38 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Here is what we observed. Want to be sure this thing is wired correctly before hitting that starter.

I didn't take down quite all the notes I should have. But we have (following the Onan label conventions) white wire P8 7-N landed on the neutral point. Black wire P8 4-U landed on L1. Red and blue wires P8 12-? and P8 20-? landed on L2. The "?" is where I fell down, those will be V and W, not sure which is which, but I don't think it matters.

What I am not sure about is this mystery brown wire in cavity 21 of P8 there, it goes to L1 right now and has no label on either end.

There is also a white wire P8 22-SHUNT2 going to the neutral point, not sure about that one either.

All other wires are accounted for and in their expected places.

The control panel is indeed configured for 120/240 single phase 3 wire. The regulator gain is set for 100% which I find interesting.
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  #62  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:47:49 PM
YellowLister YellowLister is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Ive bought many a generators and other stuff with reversed cables.. and never not looked before hooking up... when I had my shop was the same..

But we are talking about the modern cummins generator shop.. soo all bets are off

But, I'd say the only thing you are guilty of is taking it to cummins.. but we learn from our mistakes..
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  #63  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:50:46 PM
elib elib is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

I agree wholeheartedly. Also I remembered that the first instruction I gave the woman who schedules service when she started the ticket was "This is new to me, please have the tech do a sanity check and then restrap/program and put on a load bank. I want to make sure this thing is good to go."

And yes we are in agreement as to the mistake. I think I'm in good hands with Berkin.

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Originally Posted by YellowLister View Post
Ive bought many a generators and other stuff with reversed cables.. and never not looked before hooking up... when I had my shop was the same..

But we are talking about the modern cummins generator shop.. soo all bets are off

But, I'd say the only thing you are guilty of is taking it to cummins.. but we learn from our mistakes..
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  #64  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:55:02 PM
elib elib is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Just to add to all the fun we are having I just got this notice from the PGE weather forecast about potential for dry winds next week which could shut our power off again.

Nonetheless, PG&E Meteorology will continue to monitor weather forecast models closely moving forward and Elevated status may be declared for the middle part of next week for zones 2, 3, 4 and 5. Most of northern and central California has not received any significant precipitation this fall and fire potential will remain well above normal as live fuel moisture remains below critical values for mid-November and dead fuel moisture is at historically low levels in many areas.
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  #65  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:59:58 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

I'll show you guys the reversed cable fiasco later. Right now I hope somebody spots the pictures at the top of this page, trying to figure out if that brown wire as well as the white one named shunt are really in the right place. Sometimes when a new page generates the first post does not get noticed.
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  #66  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:24:08 PM
Power Power is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Quote:
Originally Posted by elib View Post
Also realizing the colors of the battery cables are backwards. Red on -/Black on + which is why the tech hooked it up backwards. It came to me like that and I ignored the colors and looked at the other ends and where they were connected. I'm sure that's the reason the tech hooked it up backwards but won't admit it.
? in post #1 you said Somehow both battery cables on this unit are red.
Now you say you have red & black, but on wrong terminals. Which is it?
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  #67  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:36:29 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Birken,

Since you have the white and brown shunt wire in question, I am presuming this is not a PMG-equipped unit.

The brown wire to L1 (U) and white wire to neutral (N) are correct as you surmised.

“Shunt” method is the power supply for the voltage regulator, when a PMG is not used.
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:49:38 PM
Zephyr7 Zephyr7 is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

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Originally Posted by Power View Post
? in post #1 you said Somehow both battery cables on this unit are red.
Now you say you have red & black, but on wrong terminals. Which is it?
Good catch.

Best to keep the color code standard with red + and black -.
This is something I’ve had to think about a LOT, since in the telecom world, our DC systems are positive ground, so red is NEGATIVE. Red is the “ungrounded” conductor, and everyone thinks that means positive due to automotive stuff. To make people think before connecting stuff, I use red and BLUE (blue is negative) cables. The only reason is so that it’s not the usual red/black so techs are more likely to check things. We tag the red -48v and the blue “battery return”.

Anyway, what I like to do is to print a tag that says “+” and another that says “-“. I put these tags on the battery cables and then put clear heat shrink tubing over the tags. I usually also put a band of red tape on the positive. This way your cables are tagged with both color code AND +/- symbols. Belt and suspenders, but some cheap insurance, in a way.

Since my work is mostly designing critical systems that can’t go down and have to be serviced live, I spend a lot of time thinking about how to make things to be service tech proof (really resistant .

Bill
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  #69  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:55:27 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

EricWood with the critical info again. Thanks so much. I think I need to get grubhub to bring you a 6-pack of beer or something at the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWood View Post
Birken,

Since you have the white and brown shunt wire in question, I am presuming this is not a PMG-equipped unit.

The brown wire to L1 (U) and white wire to neutral (N) are correct as you surmised.

“Shunt” method is the power supply for the voltage regulator, when a PMG is not used.
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  #70  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:01:11 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

As I said a few times I only had this genset for about 48 hours before taking it to the cummins shop. I bought it used and immediately brought it in to be worked on. The first post was written based on month old memories with many weeks of little sleep in between. These PGE power outages have been hard on business owners. My three grocery stores were open the entire time, some of the only stores in our whole area. I used rental generators on trailers in high crime areas so I was constantly driving back and forth to deliver and retrieve generators for the night so they wouldn't get stolen.

When I got it back yesterday I realized that yes, the cables were not only the wrong colors but the negative actually had a heat shrink with +Positive+ written on it. Birken surmised it was something extra sitting around and was originally from a 24v battery system to tie the batteries together.

Since then I've removed the label and covered 1/2 the positive lead with red tape. I'll be totally replacing the cables soon anyways. It will have to wait for my back to get better after hoisting that 4d in and squeezing it past the cooling hose. That was a bear, took Birken and myself. Then we realized we put it in with the terminals on the wrong side so the cables weren't long enough. It's either take it out or replace the cables. I think I'll replace with some nice new ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Power View Post
? in post #1 you said Somehow both battery cables on this unit are red.
Now you say you have red & black, but on wrong terminals. Which is it?
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  #71  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:11:13 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricWood View Post
Birken,

Since you have the white and brown shunt wire in question, I am presuming this is not a PMG-equipped unit.

The brown wire to L1 (U) and white wire to neutral (N) are correct as you surmised.

“Shunt” method is the power supply for the voltage regulator, when a PMG is not used.
Thanks. The only remaining question then is whether the V and W sensing wires should both be landed on L2 or where they should go for single phase then.
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  #72  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:35:22 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

I think you have it correct in your photo.

* Black (Sense U) on L1
* Red (Sense V), Black (Sense W) — Both on L2

Didn’t know if you had this on the unit decal or not, so attaching.
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  #73  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:51:00 PM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

There was no decal on the unit, that is why we were asking. If there was this would have been a whole lot easier. Thanks for the info.
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  #74  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:02:38 AM
Birken Vogt Birken Vogt is offline
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Now for the rest of the story. The cables as they came when purchased. The cable on the left had red shrink on both ends. The end up by the engine block says bat neg and the end with the terminal on it says bat pos. Obviously originally a 24 interbatt jumper reused by some hillbilly in the past. The other cable was all black. So a real decoy.

However, the starter is RIGHT HERE looking you in the face. You can see where the cables go even plainer in person than the camera shows it. With all the red wires going to the positive cable and black wires and engine block on the reused jumper.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:31:59 AM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Soooo.... Cable color codes aren’t right, but the spot to check to verify things is immediately above the battery.

Looks like the tech just hooked it up and didn’t bother to do sanity check, even though it was probably right in front of his face at the time.

Bill
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  #76  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:56:49 AM
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Some of the guys in the Onan forum helped me tremendously. Dealer broke my new to me generator by hooking the battery up backwards. They said it would be $3500 for the part plus plus plus. It was a fuse. Amazing site!

On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 5:15 AM Harry's OldEngine <oldengine@hotmail.com> wrote:

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Old 11-17-2019, 11:49:53 AM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Now I gotta ask what is with the 'red' fan shroud. I've never seen that, ever. I seen a lotta Cummins sets, too!
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  #78  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:01:32 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

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Now I gotta ask what is with the 'red' fan shroud. I've never seen that, ever. I seen a lotta Cummins sets, too!
It’s color coordinated with the blue lines in the turbo lol.
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  #79  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:27:50 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuspinto View Post
Now I gotta ask what is with the 'red' fan shroud. I've never seen that, ever. I seen a lotta Cummins sets, too!
Probably to color coordinate with the TWO red battery cables!
I would say to remind anyone near that shroud with it running, that there is a "Finger Remover" just on the other side!

Birken... You and others have done one Hell of a job to help this new member. It is NOT my generator but I thank you and everyone else for your service and tenacity. What a job
(I was going to be a Wise guy about the battery cables and say that maybe the set was British made and it is "POSITIVE EARTH".)
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:07:39 PM
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Default Re: 100kva/80kw Cummins - Dealer says control board failed, worked perfect when I lef

Dad sold used cars and I've repaired/worked on many till I was ~ 22, and when I was unemployed.

Seen so much that when installing bats I ALWAYS trace bat cable to frame before ASSUMING it's the negative cable.

With bat cables that viable I'ld say the tech had NO EXCUSE for getting them reversed, unless he was drunk. Either way I'ld say NO "reasonable care" was exercised.

Other thing is when confronted with TWO red bat cables like that I'ld trace them back to frame before GUESSING at polarity. Guessing at something this EASY to check is not "reasonable-care", in my book. The tech was an idiot, (not properly trained!). Maybe the janitor worked on it.
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