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EU7000 4 ton A/C Video


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  #61  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:10:27 AM
Flot Flot is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

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Originally Posted by billinjax View Post
Fluke replied back and said none of their meters will won't re-arm the inrush feature. I won't have a way to get an accurate measurement.

They said:

I'll just test on my EU7000i and see if it starts tomorrow.
Bill, the suspense is killing me - did the EU7000 run it after the soft start?
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  #62  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:14:59 AM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

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Bill, the suspense is killing me - did the EU7000 run it after the soft start?
Testing it today. Although I am seeing a brief 38A draw upon startup so I don't know what the EU7000 will do.
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  #63  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:10:05 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Ok, to recap, 3.5 ton heat pump and ~550W air handler. Running it in Air Conditioner mode.

Lennox OEM hard start kit didn't help at all. Total waste of money because it gained me ~13A out of a 123A inrush (voltage dropped not measured, FWIW).

EasyStart 368 worked although my impression was it just barely worked. I am measuring 34-36A which exceeds the rating of the EU7000 (again, voltage drop unknown).

The EasyStart has its own 5 minute hold down timer after a power outage. The air handler turned on and was showing 550VA on the Honda LCD.

Five minutes later when the compressor kicked in, the Honda made a very loud sound [full throttle]. I really thought it would overload. I could not tell if there was any negative sound coming from the compressor. [edit: I am pretty sure the compressor did not make any noise. If the generator could not produce enough power, the compressor should have shut down]

I do recall a flash on the Honda iMonitor where the VA meter was 7,XXX. When I retest I will have someone video the generator. Eco mode was off of course.

I have emailed Micro-Air to ask if their product will protect the compressor if it doesn't have enough current to start. I do know it will wait 5 minutes before trying again.

I am back on utility power and it seems the compressor is okay.

I will re-test later this week.

Edit: The original estimate from Micro-Air was 40A so I can support others who tell great stories about their customer service. They did not over promise on the reduction.

Also, on the protections from them:

Quote:
EasyStart far better protects your compressor than any factory OEM configuration. After the starting ramp is done, EasyStart continues to monitor the compressor for 5 different fault conditions: including low-voltage-induced stalls, low-voltage or high-temperature induced overcurrent, an open thermal overload protector, miswiring or broken wires, brownouts or brief power interruptions, and short-cycle prevention. If the generator were to ever experience a collapse in output voltage and the compressor were to stall, EasyStart would instantly detect it and disconnect power to the compressor, wait 5 minutes, and then reattempt soft starting again. It does this sort of recovery for all of its faults.

Last edited by billinjax; 05-29-2018 at 04:48:15 PM.
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  #64  
Old 05-29-2018, 08:17:54 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

hey Bill - thanks for that follow up, sounds great and good enough for me to go order a start kit for my 3 ton.

Did you happen to catch a watt readout from the generator when the AC was running?
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  #65  
Old 05-29-2018, 08:35:37 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

I took a pic. It was 3400VA with both the condenser and air handler running. 550VA of that was the air handler.

For my EU7000, my take is you really can't run anything else with my heat pump breaker on. That's the shame for most compressor loads. I have extra generator capacity that I have to reserve in case the AC starts. I guess I could turn the thermostat off for 30 minutes, turn the fridge on for 30 minutes, repeat, etc... But I am not complaining. It's a miracle I can get more capacity out of the EU7000 than its rating and get a larger reduction than advertised with the EasyStart.

Back to the point of this original thread: that YouTube video shows a 4 ton Lennox HP with a hard start kit and it works fine but mine did not. Although I recall his unit was drawing less current than mine (once started) despite being 4 tons vs. my 3.5. FWIW, his LRA nameplate value is slightly lower than mine despite being a higher tonnage unit.

It's all pretty close so I assume the lesson is YMMV with a hard start kit.
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  #66  
Old 05-29-2018, 09:25:27 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

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Originally Posted by billinjax View Post
I took a pic. It was 3400VA with both the condenser and air handler running. 550VA of that was the air handler.

For my EU7000, my take is you really can't run anything else with my heat pump breaker on. That's the shame for most compressor loads. I have extra generator capacity that I have to reserve in case the AC starts.
Hey Bill, I hear what you're saying but I don't know that you've proven that yet. More specifically, I suspect you are probably fine to start other circuits AFTER the AC is running. I've got a normal set of household items turned on right now (including my AC, lights, and a 70" TV) and according to my Sense I'm drawing 3750 watts. I'd definitely trip the EU if the water heater kicked on, but I think any other normal load would do fine. The 'resting state' of my house is about 350-600w so it is possible that I could manage normal compressor cycling if I was careful about it.

I'm going to order an easystart today and will see if I can get it installed this month. Some pics of your actual install would be appreciated!
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  #67  
Old 05-29-2018, 09:41:55 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

My challenge is it runs for 15 minutes every 15 minutes when it's above 85 albeit keeping the house quite cold. I can probably get that down to every 30 minutes and force it to run for 30 minutes adjusting the thermostat.

My "always-on" load in Sense is about 600W. What I don't know is if I have enough capacity to start the compressor with that load plus the air handler running at the same time. I might. It's just a question of how far do you want to push the EU7000 above 7000W. A big TV is less than 100W in my experience and LED/CFL lights are next to nothing. I might try to start it with 300W of those load types plus the air handler.

Hand waving over the requirement for Internet access for most smart devices, it would be nice if someone built a smarter load shedding solution that does more than just reading CTs, doing math, and triggering relays based on the math.

It wouldn't be that hard to turn off a Nest thermostat because the controller knows it's time to give the water heater some attention. Same thing for the refrigerator. The controller tracks the number of minutes the fridge has been off and enables that relay for 30 minutes at the expense of another load. Alternatively, turn on the AC, make sure it starts, and THEN turn on the fridge for 30 minutes. It could all be scheduled in a smart way.

I doubt there is a business case because Generac and others build generators big enough where this is not a problem.
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  #68  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:41:29 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

A refrigerator has a truly tiny motor. Mine takes ~100 watts. A few hundred while in defrost. You shouldn't have to worry about the fridge if your generator is large enough to run a central A/C system.

My house takes around 30 watts "at rest". Smoke alarms, modem, router, clocks and the like.
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  #69  
Old 06-09-2018, 12:56:29 PM
len k len k is online now
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

My old Amana refridgerator draws 350 watts running, is on 10 minutes off ~ 20 minutes.

At "no-load" my house pulls ~ 49 watts, about 12 of that is the alarm (likely bat charging).
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  #70  
Old 06-09-2018, 01:01:25 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Thanks guys. I measured my fridge and you're all right. Worst case is 500W in defrost mode. No big deal.
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  #71  
Old 06-09-2018, 01:22:21 PM
Wayne 440 Wayne 440 is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

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Originally Posted by billinjax View Post
...I have some grommets but I am worried about vibration ultimately cutting through the grommet, heat shrink, and ultimately the wire...
My experience has been that a dose of your favorite silicone sealant in the grommet groove and then on both sides of the grommet where it meets the metal will greatly reduce the chances of "cutting through".
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  #72  
Old 06-09-2018, 01:44:18 PM
billinjax billinjax is offline
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

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My experience has been that a dose of your favorite silicone sealant in the grommet groove and then on both sides of the grommet where it meets the metal will greatly reduce the chances of "cutting through".
Great idea. Thanks.
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  #73  
Old 06-09-2018, 02:36:24 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

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Originally Posted by len k View Post
My old Amana refridgerator draws 350 watts running, is on 10 minutes off ~ 20 minutes.

At "no-load" my house pulls ~ 49 watts, about 12 of that is the alarm (likely bat charging).
Just a thought- is that watts or VA? 350 watts sounds like a lot, but 350 VA seems reasonable...
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  #74  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:05:18 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

No it's 350 watts. Didn't have a kill-a-watt meter at the time, so I calibrated and used utility meter to measure it , spinning wheel type. Think that was without the 19 watt defrost.

It's an avacado green one bought in 80's . Only had to replace electrical thermostat, it was short cycling compressor for some reason, runs perfect now.
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  #75  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:25:38 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Fridge's old compressor must be built like a tank, think it was short cycling for few years before I figured out lights dimming was me. Would click off, wait minute or 2 , then cycle about 4-5 times more before running continuously.

Took thermostat apart and saw some secondary cantilevered electrical contact broke in half. Broke and still ran. Lucky it didn't electrocute me, fridge wasn't safty grounded, but oven 6 inches away was. Got to watch those touch voltages on things less than 6 feet apart (finger tip to finger tip).
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  #76  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:05:44 PM
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Default Re: EU7000 4 ton A/C Video

Just an update here.. and not to be interpreted as a complaint about Micro-Air...

My Micro-Air EasyStart failed tonight. It would not run the compressor on utility power. The condenser's fan would start and stay spinning. Honestly, it sounded like everything was starting up and running normal. I lost a good 30 minutes thinking everything was good electrically speaking.

Eventually I figured out I was missing 2,000 watts of power consumption and the compressor was not running. I used my Sense meter and the app on my phone to watch everything starting up. I could see the compressor trying to start but failing.

I removed the Micro-Air unit and thankfully I wired in a bullet connector on the power wire I had to cut to do the installation. I made up a pigtail with a screw terminal on one end in case I ever had to remove the EasyStart. It was easy enough to patch back in the original power wire to the contactor. Simply removed the other 2 wires with spade terminals.

I'll update how the RMA process goes and if they can troubleshoot it on their end to find the root cause. I realize I probably missed out on the opportunity to do testing with the EasyStart and the various dip switches but I needed to get things up and running.

Last edited by billinjax; 01-01-2019 at 11:50:07 PM.
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