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Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines

Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines


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  #1  
Old 01-31-2009, 04:11:40 PM
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Thumbs up Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

With all of the discussion about how rare the Keck Gonnerman double side gear engines are, I figured they deserved their own thread.

Steve Dunn sent me these fine catalog cuts of 18 hp Keck Gonnerman #1344.







Time for Steve, Tom, Travis, etc...to fill in the facts on these fine engines!

Beth
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Old 01-31-2009, 04:39:03 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck side gear doubles

According to the original build sheets for the engine shown above:

Purchaser: Elias S Kemper of Elberfeld, IN
Date of Sale: November 26, 1912 and "date called for" June 2, 1913
Manufactured by Keck-Gonnerman Co in 1913 Number 1344, 18 hp, Double cylinder side geared steam traction.
Dia of cylinder: 6 in
Stroke: 12 in
Dia of flywheel: 44 in
Face of flywheel: 13 in
Style of connecting rod & boxes: #40A, Crosshead #237A
Dia Main Shaft: 3 7/16 in
Length: 72 in
Dia Counter-Shaft: 3 7/16 in
Length: 62 in
Make of Governor & Size: Pickering 2 in
Lubricator: Manzel
Pumps: Eccentric
Injector: US #4
Style of Drive Wheels: Cast Iron
Height: 60 in
Face: 20 in
Cleats: (they made 2 dashes to represent the slanted cleats)
Style of Front Wheels: Cast Iron
Height: 38 in
Face 10 in
Style & description of Hind Axle: Rigid #429AL + 429AR
Front Axle: Channel 2 1/2 - 9 - 44 in
Kind of Gearing: 4 1/2 in + 5 in #196 G - 238 H - 192 G
Make of Boiler: J.B.
Firebox Length: 40 in
Width: 25 in
Grates: Rocking
Tubes: 46
Dis & Length: 2 x 102 in
Water Glass Size: 5/8 x 10 in
Tanks: Round platform 29 in dia x 28 in. Menke plaform
Remarks: Woods coupler; Headlight, Russian Iron jacket; Ball Bracket #273A
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Old 01-31-2009, 05:05:58 PM
Steve Dunn Steve Dunn is offline
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck side gear doubles

Beth,
I'm glad I could provide the original catalog photos from Keck-Gonnerman catalog number 29 from 1914. I think to start off with the J. B. under the boiler stands for the John Brennan boiler company of Detroit, MI. I think that they manufactured the majority of Keck boilers until the later years when Keck started purchasing Broadrick boilers which I think were also made in Michigan. Under the tanks notes are mentioned the "Menke" platform. Mr Menke was a salesman for KG Co. He is also given credit for the Menke cleat which is the removable lug found on some of the engines. The wheels on this engine were cast with the lugs as part of the rim. It is also interesting to note that Mr. Kemper called for the engine at the factory and I imagine roaded it home to Elberfeld just northwest of Mt. Vernon.

Steve Dunn
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Old 01-31-2009, 05:39:08 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Thanks for the information Steve. Did Menke do something special to have the platform named after him??

Might anyone have additional photos of DSG Kecks?

Beth
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Old 01-31-2009, 05:56:16 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck side gear doubles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dunn View Post
Beth,
I'm glad I could provide the original catalog photos from Keck-Gonnerman catalog number 29 from 1914. I think to start off with the J. B. under the boiler stands for the John Brennan boiler company of Detroit, MI. I think that they manufactured the majority of Keck boilers until the later years when Keck started purchasing Broadrick boilers which I think were also made in Michigan. Under the tanks notes are mentioned the "Menke" platform. Mr Menke was a salesman for KG Co. He is also given credit for the Menke cleat which is the removable lug found on some of the engines. The wheels on this engine were cast with the lugs as part of the rim. It is also interesting to note that Mr. Kemper called for the engine at the factory and I imagine roaded it home to Elberfeld just northwest of Mt. Vernon.

Steve Dunn
Steve:
I've noticed in a lot of the Registers that describe the drive wheels having casted diagonal cleats, they called them Menke cleats also. There is a picture on KGC thread #57 that shows the Menke Brothers.
The two Keck pictures on page 131 of the new steam book shows Menke's new engine at that time, #1304. Three of the Brothers are in that photo. That picture was taken on Main Street in Elberfeld, IN within a block of the rail road line that runs through town.
George and his Brother Herman bought several Keck Gonnerman engines, and I'm sure they were all probably brought in by rail.
Tom
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2009, 06:10:01 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck side gear doubles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took this off of KGC post # 121. These are the serial numbers of 20 DSG engines built by Keck Gonnerman. My favorite engine BTW.

Quote:
Built in 1908: 1054, 1062, 1065, 1072, 1079, 1080, and 1082.
Built in 1909: 1133
Built in 1910: 1137, 1139 and 1184
When I get home, I'll get the 18 DSG list posted. Hmm, just noticed that I come up with eleven 20s. I said 14 in another post. Must have something to do with that AAADD thing that Chris J. was talking about in the Senior Moment thread.
I just happen to have the Register sheets on engines # 1554 and # 1555. There isn't a lot of info on either sheet. Sometimes it's the luck of the draw what you get in dealing with Keck Gonnerman Register sheets.

#1554
Sold to Farmers District Ins. Co, of Portageville, MO
Date of sale: 2-14-19 Date shipped: 5-26-19
Manufactured in: 1919 Horse power: 18
Style of engine: Double cylinder side geared steam traction
Connnecting rod: Cast steel
Injector: 2 #4US
Style of drive wheels: cast Face: 20
Style of front wheels: cast
Remarks: Miller Reverse

#1555
Sold to Weber Imp. Co., Bloomington
Shipped: June 1919
Manufactured in: 1919 Horse power: 18
Style of engine: Double cylinder side geared steam traction
Injector: 2 #4US
Remarks: Miller reverse

Interesting note: # 1558, also sold to Weber in June 1919, was a 25 horse engine.

Tom
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Last edited by KGC1615; 01-31-2009 at 07:33:48 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2009, 10:19:22 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Tom,
There was a picture in an issue of Engineers & Engines years ago (I'm trying to find my copy, but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack) of a DSG Keck on which the steam dome was between the cylinders. This may be possible if the engine was built with an Arnold shifting eccentric reverse gear. I've showed this to some of the Keck guys that visit during the Oklahoma show. It appears to be a catalog cut of the left hand side of the engine so no engine number is visable. Is there any mention, that you know of, of such an engine in the register records. If I can find it I will have Beth post the picture.
Steve
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:33:57 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

there is a issue of engineers & engines on the front cover it shows a Keck side mount double that is stuck in the mud and they are jacking it up putting blocks under the wheels as well i remember that issue was in the 70s i think, got do some digging to find it
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:40:59 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Steve & Tom,

If you send the photos, I'll make sure they get in here!

Now, can you guys explain the Miller reverse as well as the Arnold? What is the difference & why do you guys get so excited over them---from those emails...Travis....

Where's Chuck? He usually has this information at his fingertips!

Thanks!
Beth
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:10:46 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Steve:
The double cylinder Keck on page 131 of the new book appears to have the dome between the cylinders. It is set back a lot further. That picture also appears in post #87 of the "Oh my God" thread. Correction, I labeled that engine as # 1088, it should be #1082. The picture isn't real clear. I have the post card at home. I can put it in when I get back.
Tom
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:25:41 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Beth,

The Arnold shifting eccentric valve gear was used on many if not all of the very early Kecks (correct me if I am wrong). Engine #1348 at Jackson, MO (almost a twin sister to my #1392 widewheel) has a shifting eccentric gear (the first one that I really had a chance to look closely at) and It was built less than a year earlier than mine. I have seen other Kecks with the Arnold gear. As to the Gentry/Miller gear. Keck had to pay a patent royalty to Gentry for every one installed. Miller, an employee of Keck, changed the design of the gear slightly and thus no more roylaty checks to Mr Gentry. I believe there was some legal litigation involved over patent infringment rights etc.. You will see in the records mention of engines going back and having the Miller gear installed. I believe Ivan Burns old DRM 1615 (now owned by Brian Vaughn) went back and had the Miller gear installed. The Gentry gear, on the doubles, had a arc shaped slide that bolted to the top of the boiler. The Miller did away with this slide and had a hanger which was attached to the engine frame. Same result, just a different way to do it.

Steve
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:40:23 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Steve & Tom,

Would you explain that crosshead also? The rod for my Port's runs parallel with the piston.

That almost looks like Mauzy's Huber with the horizontal & vertical cylinders!

Thanks
Beth
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:53:16 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGC1615 View Post
Steve:
The double cylinder Keck on page 131 of the new book appears to have the dome between the cylinders. It is set back a lot further. That picture also appears in post #87 of the "Oh my God" thread. Correction, I labeled that engine as # 1088, it should be #1082. The picture isn't real clear. I have the post card at home. I can put it in when I get back.
Tom
That's the one Tom! That short boilered DSG has got to be a one of a kind. If it was still around it would have to be the rarest Keck built, in my opinion. And the "U" tank, are there any left besides the one I saw at Darke County years ago?

Steve
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:02:39 AM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth Vanarsdall View Post
Steve & Tom,

Would you explain that crosshead also? The rod for my Port's runs parallel with the piston.

That almost looks like Mauzy's Huber with the horizontal & vertical cylinders!

Thanks
Beth
Beth,

Could you mean the connecting rod to the plunger pump mounded on the side of the boiler? That pump is powered by a small crank disc on the end of the crankshaft with connecting rod to a vertical slide which attaches to the plunger for the pump. My double 1636 has one like it but instead of a crank disc it has an eccentric.

Steve
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:26:58 AM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Steve,

Here's a shot of the one on my Port. That is the only style that I've ever paid attention to. You see the rod running parallel with the slide....original photo by Dalene Deck

Blaker used it while it ran on the mill. It also has a heating tube for efficiency......

Rather interesting to know that they had multiple ways to do the same thing.

Beth

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Old 02-01-2009, 12:50:41 AM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck side gear doubles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth Vanarsdall View Post
.......
Dia of flywheel: 44 in
Face of flywheel: 13 in
......
Style of Front Wheels: Cast Iron
Height: 38 in
Face 10 in
......
Anyone notice that the FLYWHEEL is larger in diameter --by 6 inches --than the front wheels?!?!?

Beth
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:34:21 AM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Dunn View Post
That's the one Tom! That short boilered DSG has got to be a one of a kind. If it was still around it would have to be the rarest Keck built, in my opinion. And the "U" tank, are there any left besides the one I saw at Darke County years ago?

Steve
A friend of mine, David, of Henderson, Ky has an 18 SSG that has a rebuilt "U" tank that they made years ago. They did a very nice job on it. #1313, a 20 SSG, that sold at Murrey, KY, still has the factory "U" tanks, although a bit weather beaten.
Tom
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:22:03 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

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Originally Posted by advance rumely universal View Post
there is a issue of engineers & engines on the front cover it shows a Keck side mount double that is stuck in the mud and they are jacking it up putting blocks under the wheels as well i remember that issue was in the 70s i think, got do some digging to find it
after doing some fun digging in my E&E back issues late today i found that issue, it is the Oct/Nov 1979 issue, says the engine is owned by a MR. Fred Dawson, any ideal what # this one is,
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Old 02-01-2009, 08:27:13 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

the steam dome on this engine is between the cyl
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Old 02-01-2009, 09:15:31 PM
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Default Re: Kickin' Keck Double Cylinder Side Geared Traction Engines

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Originally Posted by advance rumely universal View Post
after doing some fun digging in my E&E back issues late today i found that issue, it is the Oct/Nov 1979 issue, says the engine is owned by a MR. Fred Dawson, any ideal what # this one is,
Is there any chance that you could get that cover scanned and emailed to Beth so that it could be posted? Or maybe Brenda Stant at E & E could provide it.

Your profile says that you are from Auxvasse, MO. There was a man from there that used to run my double rear mount Keck (#1636) when it was used in a sawmill near there. 1636 was shipped new to Browns Station, MO, 20 miles west of Auxvasse back in 1922. It was sold to Ed Peacock in the late 1950's. Chady Attaberry and Amos Rixman bought it at the Peacock estate sale in 1964.

Steve
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