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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Finding Fairbanks Morse Green


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  #1  
Old 12-28-2010, 02:59:42 PM
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Default Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

I am working on a Fairbanks Morse ZD and am ready to start painting. Finding paint is always a interesting task. Some people dont really care about finding a close approximation of the original color. I would like to be close if possible.

My first experience with trying to find paint ended up with mixed results. I was trying to find paint for a Cushman Cub. Looking at the list of paint codes listed for assorted engines, Cushmans were listed with Ditzler 32565 paint code. So I went to my local PPG store and came back with a nice dark gray. I love the color but the general consensus is that its to dark. So, it may not be the original color but looks nice. I wonder if the original paint used actually faded a quite a bit and thats why people think the paint I used is to dark. Or, the paint code listed on oldengines isnt correct.

Anyway, so now I am looking to find some Fairbanks Morse Green. The oldengines website lists it as Dulux 93-72001 green.

After some searching the web, I have found the following information.

Dulux is evedently a Dupont paint. Dupont has dropped the 93- from the paint code and now is just 72001.

I found one forum post were a guy mentioned that this green is actually a GMC 1978 Fleet (Dark Green Code 46). I am not so sure about this. I went to my local PPG store and they really had a hard time finding this color by looking up the paint using 1978 GMC. After searching and looking through paint chips, we found a PPG color of PPG 2951 Dark Green and it looked pretty good to me so I bought some. The problem I was having was the lady helping me was really crabby and was having a hard time dealing with looking this up and just couldnt handle not having a paint chip to use as a reference so when we found this on, it was all she could do. When she looked up the PPG color for Dupont 72001, she came back with a PPG code of 41374 but since she couldnt find a paint chip in her book, basically said she had no idea what the coulor would be. I didnt have a bunch of confidance in her at that point.
Then I started digging around and found a 1969 dark green for GM trucks that had a dupont code of 93-77161 which has a cross-reference to a PPG code of 42850. That looked good too. I think I should have not used the 1978 GMC info as a color reference. My gut feeling was to go with the PPG 41374 but the bad experence at the store led me ending up with PPG 2951. In the can, it looks pretty good but I am horrible at matching colors.

So, here are the codes I found,
Dupont (93-)72001 - Examples of this are 72001-A Centari and 72001X – Irmon
Matching PPG is supposed to be PPG 41374

Dupont (93-)77161 with a matching PPG color of 42850

PPG 2951 dark green.

I am going to head over to the dupont store and get some 72001. The reason I wanted to use ppg paint was because I have ppg hardener, epoxy primer and clear coat already. I have no idea if a dupont paint would be compatable with these PPG products.

Anyone have some input on Fairbanks Morse green?
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2010, 03:34:11 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Of all the Fairbanks Morse engines I own, the only ones that are the same color green are the ones I painted that way...I have seen dark(almost black) green, dark hunter green, regular hunter green, forest green, light green etc. etc....I think they just used whatever they had on hand.
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:33:29 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Interesting. I guess it doesnt suprise me that there is that much variation though.

I went and bought some Nason paint from the local Dupont store. The color looks pretty good. I will have to paint some test surfaces to see how the 2 I have compare to each other. The PPG paint I bought yesterday seems a little darker.

I like the Nason paint because its cheaper than PPG stuff. PPG isnt bad, like $20-$30 a pint but you will need to get the hardener which is more than the pint of paint. I have some hardener left over from my Cushman so didnt need to purchase additional hardener.

I will have to buy some additional Fairbanks Morris engines to use up all my paint.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:13:40 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Are you using the single stage Nason?... Or, are you going to clearcoat it?...If you're gonna' spray clearcoat anyway, I suggest you get a rattle can of hunter green, spray the engine, and then apply the clear. I like the Rattle can better than I do the Nason!...The clear is what makes it fuel resistant and keeps the sun from fading the color.~
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:44:03 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Big, I think at one time there was thread on this subject and some mentioned that Model A Ford Green Engine paint was very close. Good luck and let us know what you came up using. Later, Jeff Smith
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:53:22 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

72001 is a good match for fairbanks-morse engines type z (C H Wendels notebook )
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:58:48 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

DuPont code 72001 is the most popular color simply because that is what is published in several paint list...It is very close to Dark hunter green in a rattle can color.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:10:20 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

The Nason paint that I bought is a single stage paint. Its full name is 'Nason FastDry Machinery & Equipment Acrylic Enamel'

I wonder how hot this paint can get before it starts to have problems.

I will see if I can spray a couple of sample strips this evening and take a picture or 2.
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:22:25 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Hi All, The original green is hard to find but everything I read indicated that Rustoleum Hunter Green was a very close match. I checked it agains a couple of original engines and it really was close.
I purchased a can and also got a spray can of it too. It went on easy and has proved to be very durable and gas and antifreeze proof. My C model looks real nice now and the photo doesnt show it in close up but I think you can see enough to see how it turned out.
Roger

---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

Couldnt get the photo to attach as it is on another of my posts.
it is on: http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...t=81428&page=2
Hope you can find it ok.
sorry about that
Roger
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:14:07 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Just for giggles, I stopped at home depot and bought some rustoleum hunter green and dark hunter green. Going to spray some primer on a board and paint 4 stripes, I of each color with 3 coats. Just curious how much difference there will be.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:42:59 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

This engine was painted with DuPont 72001 Acrylic Enamel with an enamel Hardner about ten years ago
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2010, 12:59:59 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Thanks David,

I am about 90% sure thats what I will end up painting with.

Last night, I covered a box with som gray PPG epoxy primer (and the backside of flywheel of my Fairbanks Morse Z D) I plan to paint some test stripes this evening and see what I like best.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:34:46 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

I had two F-Ms that were about the same color and matched Ford Model A/early V-8 color very well.

We painted the T Special Electric with Model A paint.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:12:17 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

John, thanks for the photo. Intesting how much variation there is. The green on your engine looks more 'olive' when compared to Davids and Rogers FMs.

Do you know a paint code or brand\color that you used on your engine?
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:21:11 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

I have five different Fairbanks Morse engines sitting side by side and none are the same.....
Just close your eyes and pick one!...It won't matter what color you pick, the first show you take it to, someone is gonna' tell you it's the wrong shade of green.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:43:08 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Steve, our local antique ford supply house has engine paint in Aersol or quarts. You might look for something like that in your area. I also think I saw quarts in Carpenters catalog for about 32 to 35.00 per quart. later, Jeff Smith
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:13:26 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Some paint test pictures. Its tough to get a digital image to look the same as real life but these are pretty close.

From Left To Right:
1. Single stage PPG Omni Paint Code: 2951 dark green
2. Nason FastDry Machinery & Equipment Acrylic Enamel Paint Code: 72001 (93-72001)
3. Rattle can rustolium Hunter Green
4. Rattle can rustolium Dark hunter green.

I like the Nason 72001 and the Rustolium dark hunter green the best. Of those 2, the Nason is what I think looks best.

I painted these strips in really poor conditions and didnt get even coats. The PPG paint is the darkest of the 3. Its hard to tell, but the dark hunter green is closer to the ppg paint than the picture implies and has a more 'olive' tone to it.

First


Second
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:58:31 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

Enie meni mini moe!
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:04:43 PM
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Default Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

OK, here's another question. Large model 47's (circa 1934), painted black (laquer?) underneath the black is a light green.
Could this be a primer or did they just paint the castings straight? BTW, one engine is black cylinder & green crankcase the other is green cylinder & black crankcase. No swapping occured, they are different sized engines. Go figure. The green sorta reminds me of Mike Murphy's engine.
We have a photo of the engines as the powerhouse was being erected and they appear all black at that time but we wouldn't mind a bit of color when restored. Any advise and all opinions welcome.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:17:13 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Finding Fairbanks Morse Green

As far as heat is concerned... You will be Ok on everything realted to that EXCEPT the Muffler/Pipe and hunter green is all I've ever used beit rattle can or paint brush etc" Larry
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