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Oil Field Engines & Related Equipment

Starting a Superior 2 cycle


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  #1  
Old 06-19-2011, 09:46:31 AM
Walt Roys Walt Roys is offline
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Default Starting a Superior 2 cycle

We tried to start Ron Anderson's big 2 cycle Superior (25-30 HP) yesterday at his engine show in Brewster, Wash. Can anybody give us some pointers and ideas? The problem is either propane air mix or spark. How easy is it to flood with propane? The engine has great compression. How important is Mag to engine block grounding? It has a Wico OC mag, professionally rebuilt. The Spark does not seem to be consistant.
He has a barbeque regulator on the propane tank that goes directly to the govenor. Is a vaporizer tank needed? It has what may be a built in vaporizer tank on top of the engine. What about the necesity of a diamond Gas valve? How much should the air throttle plate be opened?
Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
Walt
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Old 06-19-2011, 10:53:55 AM
Farmer John Farmer John is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

Walt im not a oilfield expert but i do know on small hit and miss or throttle goverend engines the mag has to have good ground contact with the engine.i shine the mag brackets and mag where they touch each other ....good luck ...john
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Old 06-19-2011, 05:54:36 PM
Bob Willman Bob Willman is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

I don't consider myself any kind of expert here either. I have a 25hp Type C Superior that ran fine for a number of years and now not so much. Too rich or too lean act pretty much alike and both are easy to get to. Gas pressure and volume can be critical - should be 8 to 9 inches of water. Newer consumer regulators may have an auto shut-off feature - designed to stop gas flow if a hose breaks - and your engine could easily exceed the shut-off flow rate during the intake cycle.
Diamond valves make adjustments much easier but even then you don't have to move the handle much to get out of the good range. Gas piping and hoses need to be large enough - mine are at least 3/4" diameter and some are bigger.
My problem appears to be that spark plugs don't fire easily under compression - but I can't prove that.

Good luck.
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Old 06-19-2011, 07:15:45 PM
oldproff oldproff is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

bob spark plugs are designed to fire under compression. If you have one that is not ( and that is possible) you need to replace it. Bill K
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:25:58 PM
Bob Willman Bob Willman is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

An engine friend has a spark plug tester that applies pressure to the test chamber. He has found many plugs that do not fire well under pressure. With my engine a new plug used to correct the problem but not so now. I am going to try some brand other than Champion next.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:22:57 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

HEY WALT

did you get it hit even once or not at all. they flood very easy. a lean engine will fire after several times, but too much propane and they won't fire at all. a diamond valve and an expansion tank is a big help. if you can bypass the governor untill you can get it to fire and run a couple of times would probable be best. got any photos of the entire propane set up from tank to governor. that would help.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:10:21 AM
Walt Roys Walt Roys is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

Thanks for the info ,Rod. He ( the owner)is working on a better mag to frame ground , he paints everything and that may be a factor. The spark was hot but inconsistant.The mag is a Wico OC.

I took him (Ron Anderson, owner) a diamond valve. to see if that would help. I need to post some pics, I know that when you get to this point a pic is worth a1000 words. I believe this engine is really sensitive to mixture factors. Will a barbeque regulator work? How much preasure is right? How do you test the flow rate?

We did get it to hit a couple of times rolling backwards. Do you back start these big 2 cycles? This engine has loads of compression.
Walt
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:33:53 AM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

on the diamond valve, open it so a 1/8" welding rod will fit in the diamond opening and then mark the valve before installing it. i back start my superior 2 cycle. i'll post a start up video this evening. all of the barbeque regulators are a little different on pressure because of the cheap assembly, and some of my engines will run on regulators that the other engines won't run on. i usually keep a few laying around when i start a an engine for the first time. if you have the regulator at the tank and a hose directly to the engine without an expansion tank, you are probably starving the engine for gas after the first hit. i will post pictures of my entire propane/gas set up if it ever quits raining. see if you can post some photos of all angles of the engine. if you are using a 20 lb. tank, it will probably freeze off after about 5 minutes or so, but it should start fine with one. make sure it is firing after top dead center or it will start backwards. don't want that with a superior, but running backwards is ok on most other 2 cycle engines. not on sideshafts. make sure you put in a new spark plug before trying to start it again. they are sensitive to weak or old spark plugs.

rod
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:45:37 PM
Walt Roys Walt Roys is offline
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Default Re: Starting a Superior 2 cycle

Rod, here are some Pics. It does not show the propane set up ( the pic was taken before it was set up) Is the big black thing on top an expansion chamber?
Walt

---------- Post added at 02:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ----------

Sorry , Ed, Can't get the pics to post. If you send me a PM I'll try to e-mail them.
Walt
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