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1/3 Scale Case Boiler


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  #61  
Old 08-12-2014, 08:15:00 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Stays are done. Barrel has been installed in smokebox. I figured about .005 interference barrel to throat sheet. It went tgether very hard. I had to draw it together with threaded rod through where the flues will go. I think through all the heating and welding that the throat sheet opening must have shrunk and disrtorted. Also after I got it together I found a piece of metal inside that was 1 1/2" x 2" that I can't get out through the flue holes. I'm going to have to torch it into smaller pieces through the flue holes to get it out. I've got to learn how to not get so excited in putting things together and pay better attention. I was going to just peen the stay bolts over so they would look more like rivets but couldn't get them to seal so I ended up welding them. On looking at other models it appears I made an overkill on the stays but that is the way it was on the blueprint. Anyway that along with all the rivets I think are pretty cool. I didn't mind the extra work and it makes everything look more to scale.
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  #62  
Old 08-28-2014, 12:58:59 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I decided to purchase a flue roller for $100 including shipping off ebay. I considered having someone do them but thought it would be nice to have one just in case down the road it would be needed. I also have a wood boiler I built that it might be needed for.
In researching how to roll flues the first consideration was how far to go with the expansion. I learned that the tube wall thickness should be reduced by 7%. A tubing wall of .110" should be reduced to .102". That means you need to expand the tubing .016" (.008 on a side).Then add in the tolerance between the tube and he flue sheet (I had to drive mine in) which I guessed at about .005". So I added .020" to the 1.03" id of the tube which means the end diameter of the rolled tube Needs to measure 1.05" after meing rolled. I used a 3/8 ratched and tried to sneak up on that dimension. I learned how to aquire a feel. A couple were a little over but most I got to within .005.
The beading process involved grinding an air chisel bit to shape. I had a cheap air chisel gun that did not work very well. Then I borrowed a better one. that one was worse.
then I turned the air pressure down and it worked much better.
I could bead a flue in less than 10 minutes. One of the flues has a copper bushng where the flue goes through the flue sheet to give a bigger hole to get the flue tubes out easier if the need ever comes up. Next is the hydrotest. If there are any leaks I will re roll them.
I hope this will be of help to anyone replacing flues or building a boiler. If anyone can add or make any corretions to this feel free to do so.
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  #63  
Old 09-20-2014, 07:26:51 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

In doing a hydrotest I needed a pump. Thanks to the suggestions of a couiple of forum members I came up with this. I had a hydraulic cylinder I wasn't using. I drilled and tapped the sides 3/8" pipe. Ten I need a couple of ball checks ($50 ea). I came up with a shop built ball check straight out of my misc. plumbing drawer. Shown are 2-3/8" pipe nipple, a 5/16" ball bearing, a 3/8 brass coupling, an Oring, a spring (made from music wire on the lathe) and a pocket for the spring that is inserted and welded into one of the nipples. I got the idea of having the pump work on both the push and pull strokes but found that the seal around the piston shaft isn't adequate to create enough vacume. Pump works fine as far as pressure but voulme isn't much.
Boiler took a little under 12 gals. to the top of the steam dome. Had a lot of leaks. Did a lot of rewelding. Also learned how to (caulk). Thats a process used on riveted vessels where a dull air chisel is used to displace metal along seams, rivets and pinholes to stop leakage. Still have some seepage. I've read about using mashed potatoes, pepper, horse manure, and sawdust amoung many other things to stop up the holes.
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  #64  
Old 09-22-2014, 08:23:59 AM
Tim Mathis Tim Mathis is offline
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

What pressure did you run it up to?

Looking really good, have really enjoyed watching your progress!
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:43:20 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I haven't gotten to the point to where I can hydrotest yet. I've put about 40 # of air pressure in and am still working on the leaks of which there are many. I plan on about 225# hydrotest which is 1 1/2 times of 150# running pressure. I probably won't run over 100# at shows but may run a higher pressure at other times. Right now I have some other work to do before the cold weather sets in.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
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  #66  
Old 10-14-2014, 05:16:30 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I've got the smoke box door done. The od of the door had ro be reduced by about 1" on the rotary table. . That required a lot of hand filing around the hinge tabs. Had some stubborn leaks. Flues did'nt leak except for the one with the copper bushing. I finally hooked the intake to my compressor up to the boiler to create a vacuum. I used locktite around leaking areas. The vacuum sucked the locktite into the leaking areas and fixed the leaks. I hope this will be a permanent fix. I am starting on some of the plumbing and was wondering what everyone used for fittings. Is black iron sc. 40 adequate or schould sc 80 be used? I think I was told to use hydraulic fittings.
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  #67  
Old 10-20-2014, 08:26:00 AM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I used Sch80 seamless pipe for everything. I know lots of guys who use 80 coming out of the boiler to a valve or check valve then use 40 from there on. When i repiped my engine it had standard 40 pipe on it and it was getting thin but had been in use for 35 years that way too. Hope it helps
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:59:17 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I went with schd. 80 for all of it. schd 40 gets pretty thin where the pipe threads cut in so if you think of say something bumping or breaking a steam pipe or fitting off the engine under pressure. as opposed to the pressure bearing capacity of the pipe. the down side is the size of the schd 80 fittings like the size of a potato a lot of the boiler codes require 80 on the full size
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:41:56 AM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Thanks for the information. I'm using hydraulic fittings and pipe. The difference in cost is negligable. The feeling I have is that the hardware stuff isn't near as durable. Like Chris said if you bump it or drop something on it you have a problem. I am very good at bumping and dropping stuff. I am still working on fixing leaks. I thought I had it licked till I filled it with water. A little discouraging but I think I am getting on top of it. I got the pop off valves, pressure gauge, and whistle from Coles. A little pricey but they really add a lot to the looks of things. Also bought some stainless for the grates. I like the ones Chris built. I read in live steam where you want 65 to 75% open area in your grates. These meet that specification.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:55:02 PM
John T Hall John T Hall is offline
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

b7100, I put 160# of air on my project and after a bath of leak detector a large amount of the one hundred fifty plus stays leaked. I got discouraged and worked on engine mounts and stuff. I later hydro. at 200# and 80% of the places I marked with soap stone were dry! The water was more course? I worked on some leaks and built a fire. There were a few places that would form a water bead after a few minutes and run down, but they stopped after 4 or 5 steam up's.
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Old 11-08-2014, 01:17:11 AM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I had the same experience. I tried to adjust the pop off valves for 100/105 with air pressure. Then I steamed it up. They went off at 8o#. Air pressure and steam pressure are different. I also found that most of the leaks stopped after the first steam up. Also discovered that the sight glass casting is too low (same thing Chris had). Apparently someone changed the casting to mount on the centerline of the boiler instead of 1" below but didn't change the print. A new sight gauge mount will have to be made. I am in the process of machining the engine frame casting. I am going to try to line bore it on the lathe. I don't know how else to do it. Also have seen engines with brass wear plates inside the tunnels. I don't know how they did that to form them to fit then bore them to size.
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Old 11-10-2014, 05:54:34 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Just curious why did you go with the small relief valves instead of a standard steam boiler relief valve set at 100 lbs ? I know my gauge is a little big but the relief valve i didn't think looks that bad plus if and it's a big if the boiler inspector looks at your relief valves they have to be sealed at a set pressure. Just a little FYI for you.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:08:09 AM
Ste.Anne Dan Ste.Anne Dan is offline
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

Bang up job indeed!! This has been a great thread with incredible progress!! I must say that your work is outstanding! I'm curious, does the book by Ralph Andres that you mentioned provide engineering prints complete with dimensions or does it only offer concepts and rough ideas? I'm considering on purchasing this book myself but I am unsure whether or not it will provide enough detail as I have no other plans to work from.

Cheers!!
- Daniel
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:13:23 PM
Ste.Anne Dan Ste.Anne Dan is offline
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I couldn't help myself...I bought the How to Build a 4" Case Traction Engine & Water Wagon by Ralph Andres. I hope that it's as good as I imagine it to be.

So far, your project looks awesome! I am very jealous!
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:37:46 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I may end up getting different relief valves. The ones I got came from coles. The way I interpreted what I read in Andres' book is that is what he used. This whole project has been a learning process. I consider this as a cost of an education. I very much appreciate your input.
The Andres book is a very good guide in building one of these engines. However there are a few things in it that don't work out the way they are depicted in the book. I would recommend anyone building one of these engines to use these forums and ask questions and get advice from someone that has built one of these. There are a lot of talented And knowledgeable people here that are very helpful in providing advice. The book has all the drawings however the print is so small its hard to read. I have the prints from reduction engineering that are full size (about 10 pages).
Another website I have found to be very helpful in learning the machining processes is (turn wright). Kieth has made 400 videos on machining processes. He is very knowledgeable and explains the processes as the camera is rolling.
Right now I am working on the engine frame. I had to build the tooling to line bore it on the lathe. Its a real challenge to take a casting and machine it to dimensions and make everything fit without running into problems.
Thanks for the kind words.
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Old 11-15-2014, 12:24:55 AM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I had used a 1.5" dia bar that went from chuck to tailstock with a turning bit mounted in the middle, the frame / crosshead was mounted on the cross slide on an angle plate. the set up has to be really rigid to prevent taper or chatter marks this is an interrupted cut so it'll behave pretty badly
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:41:43 AM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I've finished boring the engine frame. I had to make a mounting fixture to go on the crossslide. It camps on with the dovetails on the sides of the crossslide. I welded a piece of channel on a slotted plate to give extra clamping area on he back side. Boring bar is 1 3/4". Tool bit is mounted in a round adapter with set screws and an adjusting screw on the back side to advance the tool bit. I used a dial indicator to advance the tool bit. I sat the tailstock dead on as close as I could. Ran everythig slow taking about .020 to a side. Bore came out within a half thou from one end to another. I took the bar out in the final cuts to measure bore. It took a long time and a lot of shimming to get it into position. In machining the areas on the dog leg I had to locate everything from the center of the bore. To establish a measuring point I fitted a couple of disks in the ends of the rough bore in the casting with a 1/4" rod through the center that I could measure from. I found that the rough bore was skewed quit a bit. This was done before the boring. Then when I mounted it on the cross slide I had to shim everything to correspond with the machining I did on the dog leg. [/I]
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:45:08 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I faced the end off the engine frame while it was still mounted on the cross slide. I then lapped the bore in the lathe with a shop made lap mounted on the boring bar. This worked really well. It took most of the tool marks out and made a perfectly round and straight bore. I ran it slow and moved the carriage back and forth to create a crosshatch. I was able to remove the engine frame from the lathe to make the lap then remounted it. The only aligning I had to do is move the crossslide. The dovetail on the crossslide is a convenient way of mounting fixtures for line boring.
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:17:49 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I line bored the cylinder on the lathe. PIcture #1 shows cylinder being lapped. I ended up taking the clamps off as it was squeezing the casting making the bore egg shaped. Photo #2 shows cylinder on the mill machining the flats. Cylinder is mounted to the boring bar for the milling operation. This assures that the bore is exactly paralell with the flats. Photo# 3 cylinder is back in the lathe still mounted to the boring bar to face the ends and counterbore. Everything should end up square and true with the bore.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:03:40 PM
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Default Re: 1/3 scale Case boiler

I have some questions about the steam chest. How does the sliding valve seal? On the print it doesn't look like there is anything holding it against the cylinder bloc. Steam pressure? It specifies that surfaces are to be lapped. Can that be done with some emory paper taped to the top of a table saw. Lapping compound between valve and cylinder block? Bronze is specified for the steam chest and cylinder glands as well as connecting rod bearings. Bronze is very expensive and there are many different makeups for bronze. Where can brass (less $) be used instead? Can packing nuts be brass? What do you use for packing? Is there a source for small quantities of bronze. Connecting rod bearings are only a couple inches square by about an inch. Where can I get a small quantity like that? That's all questions for now. There will be many more later.
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