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Trucks, Trailers and Hauling for Shows

Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer


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  #21  
Old 12-25-2016, 01:16:51 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

One thing that we learned from our own experience is there is a great variation in the quality of brake components from one supplier to another. We bought a new 25 ft. gooseneck with electric brakes in 05. Picked it up at the builder in OK. myself, those brakes never were very good. We tried all kinds of remedies but they just weren't very effective, even got me into a small collision with an idiot that tried to do a U turn in front of me at speed without any warning! But that's another story for another time. Basically was going to swap it off and give up on it but my brother the trailer dealer in the family said he would get it to work or else! and he did!! Basically replaced the entire brake units, backing plates and all, with new units from one of his parts suppliers. What a difference! The original parts were virtually not worn as they never worked enough to wear, but the magnets weren't very strong or large. Now you can even slide wheels under load, something it couldn't do before. It wasn't cheap but well worth the cost! The newer 20000GVW trailer I picked up from the same builder 4 years ago was light years better quality wise. The old fellow that ran the co had passed on and his son took over and he assured me that I would be pleased with his improved product, as he remembered my disappointment with the other one, and he was right.
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2016, 11:50:58 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

No more than I will be using the trailer I am just going to fix what it has. And I don't want to have to wire and setup a brake control box in the 2 or 3 vehicles I might tow it with.
Before it sat a couple years and this happened with it , the brakes worked well. My neighbor used it several times hauling tractors on the interstate with his 01 Tundra and it worked great for him.I have not got started on this project yet. I had a issue with my "sunday " car and had to tear into it and had alot of other work come along to make a extra buck. But it won't be long now as I am getting caught up with all the "necessary" work.
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2016, 11:51:56 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

I recommend going over that entire brake system with a fine tooth comb, and if you see any wear or rust in any components replace them. That includes cylinders that are scored or that have any pitting left in them after honing. And don't neglect the lines and the hoses. If in doubt, replace. Don't reuse any soft parts. Buy new kits and use all of the parts instead reusing stuff that "looks ok". Systems that are less than perfect will find a way to leak down after sitting for a time, even if they hold pressure fine. I would also recommend using DOT 5 silicone fluid in that system, if it is still available. Glycol fluid is hydroscopic and picks up moisture from the air, causing rust problems and the like. Don't take any chances. As others have pointed out, these systems are not the greatest idea in the world. The last thing you need is one acting flaky.

One more thing, inspect your linings and if they are soaked with brake fluid replace them so all four wheels brake equally. That system was once full of fluid and it disappeared somewhere.

Good luck.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2018, 04:33:50 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

Well I am slow but the trailer is setting at the shop door now, I just ordered new tires for it and had a master cylinder book marked on ebay from a search a few months ago.
Well what do ye know? it is no longer there, and the company , Atwood,was bought out and closed down and no parts available. Guy at Lepard components, "spelling" basically said in so many words, "tough sh-t" when I ask what they meant for folks to do that owned their products.

The entire front of the trailer is "made" so to speak with this actuator in the design.converting to electric would not be a "drop in" fix. Looks like i can weld in a different hitch of course.
I have a couple vehicles I want to tow it with,plus the neighbor hauls his tractor with it once in a while,hasn't lately..So electric would be a bit inconvenient to say the least.Hence the reason I bought 1 with surge. What a mess.
Well, a bit more knowledge of why I have this mess. Picture 4 slots in the top of a trailer hitch. The entire top of the master cylinder open. A gasket between the inside top of the hitch with 4 bolts holding it on. NOTHING between the inside of a fluid filled master cylinder and the world but a gasket in the area of those slots. A bit of rot or whatever,poof goes gasket,and then we have a swimming pool.

Also,what is a effective way of removing the old floor wood other than struggle? There is self tapping 1/4 inch torx head screws holding the wood down every 2 foot or so.16 foot in the long part,about 2 foot on the dove tail. Alot of heating with the torch to get out the 12 or so I pulled this after noon.I was looking at doing a "patch" to get it serviceable but I think I might punt and just redo the whole shibang.

So the folks that suggest going electric, what type of hitch would you put in place of this?
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Last edited by uglyblue66; 03-28-2018 at 07:38:51 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2018, 07:38:46 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

Just weld the moving parts so they don't move any more. No problem. Or put a spacer in there. OR for now you can just drive it like is, it may move back and forth but it may not be as bad as that sounds, then fix it later.
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  #26  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:14:16 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

Personally, a trailer that size isn't all that expensive new. By the time you buy tires, a new deck and do something with the breaks and make the wiring work, Not to mention all the work, you will easily spend way more than the price of a new trailer. I would just cut my loses, put this one on a farm consignment or similar sale and let some one else make it into what ever and then go get a safe new unit and spend my time on more enjoyable projects. Learned that the hard way years back on another similar trailer problem.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:44:16 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

I haven't priced 1 lately but a friend priced a lawn and garden trailer from Hudson,2600 bucks.
As for used trailers, sheesh,some of the used junk around here is 1000 bucks or so and much worse than this.Cracked welds,bad springs. Trailers may be cheap around else where but not around here.

When I bought this I had no idea i would ever get healthy enough to weld again and just had 1 T ton truck I thought I might haul once in a while.Thought I was saving time and effort then. Oh well.
This trailer has not been used much,just let sit and deteriorate,mostly on my watch because I couldn't tow it. suspension and axles are in good shape.Bearings are still nice and smooth and quite but I am going to repack them during all this work.

Floor replacement will mostly just be time consuming,I have more time than money. Would be nice to know a short cut on removing old boards.
I have decided to go to a dealer,Golden Gate trailers I think it is, in the morning and see what type of replacement hitch they have.I can find them here on the net but can't measure them and such.Hold 1 in my hand and see what will work,then decide on the options to choose.
I had these on the way for it already before I found the brake parts to be na
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-NEW-ST205...72.m2749.l2649.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:21:58 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

If you can sell your trailer for say $1500 and buy a NEW trailer for $2500, do that. You're about to spend more then $1000 on parts. You would be surprised how fast it adds up. I just redid a trailer, and the cheapest and fastest way was to replace both axles complete with new brakes. Needed all new wires, found a couple of cracked springs so all them had to go too.

When I needed a new personal trailer, I just went out and bought a new flatbed from Big Tex. Best thing I did. Super high quality wiring, powder coat everything, new everything, and I get to just tow it for a few years. There are at least a couple of dozen companies making pretty much the same trailers at near identical prices, and they finance cheap.
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  #29  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:41:35 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

Quote:
Originally Posted by pegasuspinto View Post
Just weld the moving parts so they don't move any more. No problem. Or put a spacer in there. OR for now you can just drive it like is, it may move back and forth but it may not be as bad as that sounds, then fix it later.

A trailer big enough to have brakes will get downright squirrely in a fast stop with them disabled.

If there is an accident, and moving parts are found welded up
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  #30  
Old 03-28-2018, 11:57:58 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

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Originally Posted by akuna View Post
Have you tried google? Seems like people have master cylinders listed. Not the same number, but may work as a replacement.

Here is an example. http://www.trailerandtruckparts.com/...ors_c_107.html

I bet a good trailer supply place close to you would be able to find you a cylinder.
the 85841 does look the same? Um,thanks for the help! I called those folks with the numbers I have and they said they were out of stock and not getting anymore. But that 1 listed for 63 dollars looks the same.
If you notice that gasket,the mounting slots in the hitch,you can see the gasket thru the crack. IF i had only known this could happen I could have covered up the hitch.

Power you are correct,I am concerned about that sort of thing happening.If this was a farm trailer,I wouldn't even be bothering with all this.
But I want to be able to tow it about 3 times a year about 200 miles a trip. And maby 3 times 20 miles a trip.that's it.Not enough to justify a bunch of money spent if I can spend a few days and a few 100 bucks.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:00:40 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

well I made a trip over to Golden Gait trailers and they found the numbers had been changed and found me 1 and it is on the way!
80 bucks for the cylinder and cap. A rebuild kit woulda been cheaper if it was available.
Now to take a few steps to keep water out of this new 1!
Is there a gasket sealer that is safe around brake fluid?
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  #32  
Old 03-30-2018, 12:51:34 AM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

I had a trailer with surge brakes on it and had the same issue. I bought a round magnet that was about an inch and a half long and attached it to the bottom of the brake cylinder cap. It gathered up all the rust that was in the system. After about a month the magnet had a big ball of rust built up all around it.

After a few years I needed to replace the brakes on it and did some checking. The hubs were bolted to the axle and it was the same pattern as electric brake hubs. I bought the entire electric brake hub and brake shoes as a kit cheaper than I could purchase the brake shoes alone for the hydraulic system. I took the surge system off and welded on a ball receiver and switched over to electric brakes. Haven't had a problem since.
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  #33  
Old 03-30-2018, 04:57:59 PM
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Default Re: Surge Brake Repair on Tandem Trailer

Well I have a good use for this 1 when i finish repairing it. I just got a truck I think should be able to tow it safely back in December.
I have 1 model T 1 ton dump truck i hope to haul to a couple shows and will be wanting to haul my T pickup about a 100 miles up the road to be able to unload it and tour with the club I am in. IF I can get both the T pickup and the trailer finished! seems stuff keeps popping up taking my time away from it.

I will also be wanting input on the Etrack tie down system and so forth.I ask the guys on the T forum about the wheel tiedowns and they don't seem to get a good review.
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