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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope


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  #1  
Old 01-21-2015, 04:46:36 PM
Sekiar Sekiar is offline
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Talking Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Monday was such a pretty day here in NW Arkansas...And a friend just happen to come by and talked me into giving the old Bear a trial run. Since both flywheels total about a ton each two old guys with 145 total years of experience didn't have enough lead in our pants to pull the Bear through compression. So we took a floor jack and upped the exhaust valve so we could get about 1/2 way through compression. At that point we could turn the flywheels and first time, using starter fluid, she bellowed one time and came around again but could not complete the second cycle. We repeated this a number of time using the propane set up and it would hit but never could make it through the second cycle. I removed the hot tube and added a cutoff valve in its place. That let us ease up on the compression without the use of a floor jack. Same results. At one time I had a 20 and a 25 HP Superior and both had a cam operated compression relief that made starting an easy feat. Since the Bear does not have a handy way to release compression for starting and really needs one, so I came up with an Ozark engineering solution..at least I hope it works out as planned. I mounted an 115 vac operated air valve in place of the hot tube and added a micro switch that operates of of the cam on the side shaft. I've got it set to allow the compression to be vented for about 1/2 of the compression cycle. I can move the micro switch to vary the amount. Now time will tell if all of this tinkering will pay off.
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Old 01-21-2015, 04:54:19 PM
Michael Corrigan Michael Corrigan is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Hello Charles,

Nice Engine. What HP is your Black Bear? I have a 40 HP.

MC
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:17:02 PM
Sekiar Sekiar is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

It's a 35 HP. didn't know they made a 40. Have you ran yours? Any photos to share? At one time a 25 HP Black Bear was in a neighboring town, but now long gone.
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:18:07 PM
BuckeyeMan BuckeyeMan is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

The place where you have your funky air release thing in the head is where you are suppose to put compressed air to roll it over for starting. and I can see by the size of your gas line it is not big enough, nor is the regulator. But good lock with getting it going. .....................DH
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:47:09 PM
Michael Corrigan Michael Corrigan is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Charles, Oil Well Supply built the engine in 25, 35, and 40hp. I haven't seen another 40hp before but I've got one. Before I bought it years ago I saw it run but haven't run it myself. Haven't found the time to set it up the proper way. I would like to figure out the correct plumbing for the fuel system but I haven't searched out for help on that yet. Mine has a large magneto for the firing source.
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:11:40 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Actually that's where the hot tube was located and the same fuel setup was used by Doug Allen about 9 years ago to run the engine. I'm using an OC mag so will probably not use the hot tube set up. My Quincy compressor is 70 ft away so air starting is not an option at present. I've ran 20, 25, and 40 HP engines with similar propane set ups without ever a problem. My main problem is that I'm just not as strong as I once was. About 20 years ago my 10 year old grand daughter could start my 20 HP Superior and I had no problem starting my 40 HP Bovaird & Seyfang and it and both of my Superiors used a grill propane regulator and all ran just fine. I've never had to used air to start before but maybe this time I'll need to.
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:47:55 PM
Tom Weatherford Tom Weatherford is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

The one in Rogers , Ark. resides in Michagan now. I sold it to Walt Sappington.
I recond he still has it. Can be seen on Youtube. It was a 25hp ,runs great.
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:09:07 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

I'm pretty sure what buckeyeman is telling is right. At least for the air start. I would say running a regular air hose to the valve you already have in place will work. Working the valve is just a matter of timing. Pay attention to what your doing. We start our big engines on air all the time. I'm 58 now and not as strong as I used to be. Once you learn to air start you'll love it!
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:25:19 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

What size air tank would I need if I placed it very near to the engine and what pressure would be needed? I can use my long rubber air hose to fill the tank. A 3/4-inch pipe is the size going into the hot tube area on the head. All suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Charles
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:10:32 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

For years we started our big engines with an old compressor that had a slow old 3hp electric motor and about a 60 gallon tank. Now we use a newer 5hp with an 80 gallon tank. Most start most of the time. We are running 1 1/4" airline to all the engines from that compressor. During the show we do cheat because we have an additional 100 gallon tank in the system and have air supplied from a bigger outside compressor but that allows us to have volume to start one right after another or enough air if one becomes difficult. If you only have a portable garage compressor with a 30 gallon tank you should still be able to add a little more 3/4" pipe and an air hose and get it to spin over 3 or 4 times. If it's firing at all with what you're doing now then you should be able to get it running. A smaller compressor just means more patience.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:15:58 AM
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Leonard Fausset Leonard Fausset is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Charles, Here are some pics of the Bear at Coolspring. I think all of this air start system was a factory original setup. Hope this might offer some additional help. Leonard
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Old 01-22-2015, 03:25:52 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

One more ? Any suggestion on a suitable check ball I could use either in a 3/4 or 1-inch air line? Thinking about moving my compressor to near my Bear and setting it up so one old guy can still start his engine. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-22-2015, 04:46:22 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Charles, is that the same Black Bear I saw at your place about 15 years ago? They're neat engines.
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:20:10 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Yes sir it sure is. However since then it has traveled to New York and returned back here about 8 or 9 years ago. Kind of an expensive round trip, but worth every cent to me. Not if, but when she a running again I'll see if I can share a video.
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:44:31 PM
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Photo Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Charles, Glad to see your still having fun with big engines!! If I remember right you were getting into marble guns and miniature steam engines... I would like to see your Testla coil in operation???

Here is a movie of a Black Bear running at Brookville Indiana a few years ago..

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Old 03-23-2015, 05:11:42 PM
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Photo Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

I believe the Bear is ready to roar. I moved my Quincy compressor next to the engine and have it plumbed with a heavy duty check valve in the air line. I blocked the exhaust valve open and I could get the flywheels really moving good. Now all I need, hopefully is another brain and two more hands and she should run.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:59:39 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

Just a thought, you may want to use some rubber hose in between the air compressor and your engine. If the engine starts to move around something is going to have to give somewhere. All that rigid piping may not give and I would hate to see the head get broken.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:51:02 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

I don't understand "blocked the exhaust valve open". You should have the intake and exhaust valves closed when you put air to it and time your air in on the power stroke.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:09:08 PM
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

I only blocked the valve open to get it just past top center and then I removed the block and hit the air valve. Sorry I wasn't too clear I can just barely turn the flywheels as it is.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:36:25 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Black Bear is getting close to running. I hope

That makes more sense now.
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